I will be spending Christmas alone and my children do not care

[Brazien]

Hello,

I have 3 adult children, my eldest DD is 31, she is married and has a gorgeous little boy who is 11 months old. They spent last Christmas with me and DD already made it clear they would be doing one Christmas with us and another with her husbands family which is obviously totally fine and understandable. My next child is my DS who is 27 and then my youngest DS who is 25.

I would say I generally have a very positive relationship with all of my children, we talk relatively frequently and haven’t until now had a large falling out, they haven’t ever raised any issues with me in terms of our relationship and have historically initiated and planned visits. I am divorced and have been for many years, I have no close relatives as both of my parents have passed away and my only brother lives in Australia.

I absolutely love hosting Christmas, it is the highlight of my year. When my children’s father and I divorced we actually agreed he would get Boxing Day and New Years Eve (our children were still small when I got divorced) in exchange for me getting Christmas as it matters so much to me. I have hosted Christmas every year since I got married at 23, I never complain about hosting or resent doing this, like I said it’s the highlight of my year. As my children have grown it has of course meant some years I’ve had all of them home and others just one but never have they left me alone for Christmas and I’d actually say they have instead made quite a bit of effort between themselves to ensure someone is always around to spend Christmas with me.

Tonight I was added to a group text message chat, it included myself, both of my DS and their respective partners. DS1 has been with his girlfriend for about a year and a half, DS2 has been with his boyfriend for a year. My eldest son then sent a message, I’ll paraphrase but it effectively said that due to my attitude and opinions in regards to his girlfriend he will not be spending Christmas with me this year as he would like to spend it with her and refuses to expose her to my “inflammatory” opinions. He said he his brother and their partners have all booked to go skiing/snowboarding instead. They then all left the group message chat before I was able to reply.

First of all, this is not a way in which my son would ever normally speak to me, it was very defensive and accusatory in tone. Second of all, the opinions he is referring to are from a conversation I had with him following a large family get together for Easter. She is 24, French and seems to have an extremely elevated ego and level of confidence that borders on arrogance. I know she has a poor relationship with her own father (her mother has passed) but he none the less funds her life which consists entirely of expensive pastimes (snowboarding, tennis, concerts) and seemingly getting drunk, using drugs and partying.

At Easter she mentioned politics, which isn’t something I’d be keen to talk about over a family meal normally but my DS said that if we can’t have a friendly debate then we seal ourselves into an echo chamber of our own beliefs. She was totally unwilling to hear me out, and kept citing her multilingual abilities, degree and “travels” as reason she clearly knew much better than I, about politics, in Britain, a country she has only lived in for about 2 years. I shut the conversation down and said this is clearly unproductive. I then told my son afterwards that I had found her attitude to be filled with arrogance. She has also blank out refused to attend my nephews wedding as it was in a church and my DD told me that soon after she gave birth she said to her “if you ever want to play tennis or go to Pilates I will go with you; I’m sure you’re dying to shed the baby weight”. DD found this quite upsetting at the time but DS refused to call her out for it.

In terms of Christmas, both of my DS had said they would be spending this year with me, DS1 did not spend last year with me but DS2 did. I was looking forward to this and despite my dislikes of his girlfriend’s attitude, I made it clear she was also invited, as was DS2s boyfriend.

I called DS1 after the message in the group message chat and explained that I had never meant to cause offence to his girlfriend or to him for that matter and only ever shared opinions as she has always seemed so keen to be forthcoming with her own. I told him that I would be spending Christmas alone and I found that very upsetting and asked him to reconsider, I also offered to cover any costs associated with rescheduling their trip. He told me quite plainly it is not his problem that I would be alone and that he felt like I did not approve of his girlfriend and would never approve of him dating someone “intelligent, gorgeous and cultured” as it would make me “insecure”. Again this is never a way he has spoken to me before. He then hung up.

I then called DS2 who said that he was sorry I would be alone but he feels they’ve given me enough time to make other arrangements and that he feels that his brother is right that I clearly don’t like his girlfriend and he wants to show a stand of support to his brother and his girlfriend who he said he thinks is brilliant. He claimed I only don’t like her as she doesn’t conform to my expectations of a polite “basic” girl who just wants to get married and go on family holidays every year.

While I would say I don’t massively like her, I’m an adult and totally capable of being perfectly civil towards her. More so the reasons I don’t like her have nothing to do with her beliefs but her sheer arrogance, ego and reckless lifestyle, funded entirely by her father.

AIBU to be quite upset by this and to believe this is most likely coming from his girlfriend? How should I approach this going forward?

Absolutely not! Don’t be so ridiculous.

Can you be more specific with what areas you disagreed on? I'm not saying it justifies either of your or her behaviour but I'm wondering what issue she said her travel and degree meant she was more qualified? I mean if she has a degree in politics she's more qualified on some aspects of political theory, strategy etc but you like everyone I'd qualified by being a citizen of this country and your lived experience. If she was snobby about her wealth or traveling experience then I do think that's not good behaviour and that she should be more aware of different peoples wealth, access etc. However I don't think you needed to raise the issue again with DS.

What degree does she have out of interest.

Plan yourself a nice holiday this year and treat yourself and hopefully the following Christmas you might have one or two of your children joining you again but accept that maybe they will want to do other things at Christmas some years from now on as they are with adults….after all it sounds like you didn’t spend Christmas with your parents from the age of 23 onwards and your kids are older than that now……I really don’t think Christmas is all that anyway

She does sound annoying but I think it’s a little unfair to dislike her for having a well off dad who gives her money.

I’m guessing the conversation was around immigration and you said the levels are too high and it’s having a detrimental impact on some parts of society, and now she thinks you hate her for being French and that youre a racist bigot. If that’s the case you could ask to take her for coffee to clear the air and say that you got off on the wrong foot but would like to start over? i would wait until after christmas though.

Might I suggest a Christmas Cruise? They are absolutely amazing, and you'll meet all sorts of lovely folk in much the same boat (pun intended).

Personally, if my offspring had done that to me for daring to have my own opinion and voice it, I would tell them to spend every holiday skiing because we are done with the niceties.

I wouldn't want to spend christmas with you!! My mil did the same giving her opinion of me to my husband 10 years ago, only difference was we were 10 years into our relationship I was pregnant and we were engaged. We are now 10 years on from that and 3 children later, have a guess how many Christmases we have spent together since she gave her opinions on me.... 0! You can't honestly think that you can be nasty about your son's gf and expect her to spend christmas around your house, you openly admit you don't like her!

It really isn't your children's problem that you havent remarried and moved on. They have their own relationships now. I'm 1 of 3 children, we all live close to my parents who are still married, they never expect an invite at Christmas, some years they will have Christmas day at home to themselves (their choice), other years we all come together, there's no pressure from anyone. I couldn't be doing with every year having to revolve around someone else.

You need to change your attitude or you're in for some lonely Christmases, I wouldn't be surprised if the son with the gf you insulted never spends christmas with you again.

Sometimes you have to lay in the bed you’ve made OP. It was shortsighted to make the GF feel unwelcome, and arrogant to assume your DS would pick you over her.

You talk a lot about being the ‘host’ and there’s a real ‘main character’ vibe of your OP. Your children are grown now, and your role in their life has changed but I don’t think you’ve adjusted to what this new phase looks like.

Take some time out over Christmas DO NOT guilt trip them, that would be disastrous. Apologise TO the gf. Invite them out for dinner (neutral territory, don’t suggest dinner at yours!) and try to build some common ground with this girl, as she’s clearly very important to your son.

Good God, I’m confused. I don’t think the OP has done that much wrong and I’d feel as devastated as her if my DCs all behaved like this over Christmas.

YANBU!! Do they not have some semblance of closeness and loyalty to their own Mum??

Well she likely had some good points, even if you personally did not agree.
Its true she probably lacks some wisdom due to the idealism of youth.
I sometimes find myself recalling “Young Ones” episodes when my DCs go on a political tirade.

I tend to gently ask questions and give a bit of historical perspective.
For example, my eldest is down the Marxist rabbit hole big time so I’m having her read Utopia, The Whisperers and Gulag Archipelago and have told her about the dead bodies strung along the Berlin Wall that’d I’d seen with my own eyes. The psychological impact of growing up during the Cold War….

Just so she can get a bit of the yeah those philosophers are great at fantasising about utopian societies, but all attempts have been disastrous. Genocide in Gaza of 70k or so due to extreme Zionism? Try 100s of millions due to extreme Communism.

Then if all else fails, there is the agree to disagree which is the adult thing.

I’m also going to go against the grain here and say that it sounds like the girlfriend is pretty awful — she does indeed sound arrogant and rude (and the comments about religion are very rude indeed while being hosted at your partner’s mother’s house for Easter. I’m not religious myself, but even as a teen or twentysomething I knew better than to be rudely dismissive of other people’s religion at the dinner table, especially when they were hosts, and none of the French people I know would do that either!)

It also sounds like both the sons are a bit dazzled by the girlfriend’s lifestyle and wealth, to be honest; and mistake pushing boundaries and showing off for sophistication. I think the DSes have actually been extremely rude to their mum with the chat thing. OP, however, you should lie low with this from now on. In time your DS may well come to break up with this girl; but if he doesn’t, don’t get into any more family arguments where your sons can paint you as the problem. Book something away for Christmas and say no more. They may well come to feel they miss your Christmas.

One thing I do agree with pp on and that is that it’s not good to expect every Christmas to be for you and a big deal which is the highlight of your year. (My mum does this and every year it becomes a huge burden for all of us when we are tired and busy with work and small children and sometimes just want a small Christmas with our own kids in our own house. It’s become a big source of angst and guilt, with my mum starting up her complaining every year about not wanting to be alone at Christmas from August onwards.) It might be that you need to diversify your Christmases a bit and enjoy the odd different year. Making your children feel stressed about who is going to bear the burden of mum at Christmas isn’t great and you’re more likely to have more family Christmasses if your Christmas is one they look forward to every other year or however often you do it!

You may enjoy hosting at Christmas. By the same token there are people (and I am one) who find these large family christmas gatherings extremely stressful. I reached a point where I told my parents this and yet they still wanted me to come, knowing that I hated it. I deliberately chose to spend the holiday in a non-christian country like Morocco or Egypt. Later on I just told the I was going to XX country but actually spent the time on my own. Back in those days I was still working for an employer and I really enjoyed the time off and doing exactly what I wanted.

If being social and hosting is important to you why not volunteer with one of the charities which hosts homeless or vulnerable people over the holiday. You are sure to meet someone who enjoys lively discussion.

I think they should have been more thoughtful and kind and not blindsided you in a group chat they left without giving you a chance to respond. I hope you can speak to them face to face and clear the air, can you go for coffee with your son’s girlfriend and get to know her one on one? Perhaps also organise a pre-Christmas meal for everyone the week before, and go away over Christmas instead?

It IS all coming from his girlfriend, I expect, but that doesn't mean you should ignore it. Maybe you are overbearing and she feels like she has to lay down some boundaries. Any clues to how you're perceived from your divorce?

It sounds like you're very different people, and I think what DS2 said is telling, about you wanting DS1 to be with someone who's... a bit of a younger version of you? Anyway - if they are being arseholes, skiing will be quite compatible with instant karma.

I hope your DD scoops you up and gets over the weird idea that you have to separate different sides of the family. If you were in my family I wouldn't let you spend it alone, and my PILs would be understanding.

I agree with @TenaciousDeeds
YANBU. Every family has disagreements from time to time and should be able to move on. Both sons sound very dogmatic. I would be very conscious of not leaving either of my parents (or other family members) alone for Christmas, even if that meant rearranging my own plans. They can go skiing on the 26th.

Marxism the economic theory is not remotely the same as Communism as historical and political practice.I’d be pretty annoyed if my mum failed to understand that and kept conflating them.

My mil has been quite nasty to me and I have vowed to never be like her. Rule 101 is never slagging off the dil to dil or your children. My sons gf is lovely. I have no reason at all to dislike her. She lives on the other side of the world which I inwardly don't think is sensible. But my feelings on that don't go beyound asking questions. Like "where do see this going long term? How will it work out?" So I'm showing interest not judging. I have friends I can express "how do they think it's going to last?" Too.

Unless they find a criminal or utterly rude lazy slob I'm happy if they are happy.

I'd rather watch them make a mistake than loose them. Anyway, who ever listens to patents about their partner? Your on a hiding to nothing trying

Book an adult only hotel, somewhere warm.
Our children are only on loan, once they are adults, we're free.

Wish them a merry Christmas.

Try repairing the relationship with DS, GF.

Predominantly surrounding the viability of capitalism, her stating that the UK suffers massively as it is suspended half way between socialism and capitalism which results in the worst of both being the dish served, religion in the House of Lords and monarchies, NATO and the UN being “biased, useless and a system which only allows small nations to be punished which large nations and the Big 5 can break them as they please”, Nuclear Disarmament, cultural integration after immigration etc.

I think she did Literature and Philosophy at undergrad and strategic and political communication at masters level.

Ah so you belong in the camp of ‘Marx was right and Lenin just corrupted Marxism’

And of course, I would never ever conflate theory with practice. In fact, my post clearly delineates between the fantasy (theory) and the reality (practice).

Discussing politics with someone who you dislike is always dangerous.
No political or religious debates during extended family dinner.

@Brazien So she’s knowledgeable but clearly hasn’t learnt the art of debate (and perhaps you haven’t either)?

I’d drop the subject of Christmas with your DS’s and make your own plans as others have said. Just move on and let the dust settle.

You still haven't said what your opinions were. Whatever, you're on a hiding to nothing if all you can do is myopically obsess over this woman and her views, refusing to admit that you said anything that could have wound everyone up. No wonder they're going skiing, you must be maddening.

OP I can see why you're upset, but try to see this as an opportunity to do something different - perhaps stay in a fancy hotel, perhaps go abroad. Next year they'll probably want to come to you, but you might feel like telling them to get lost - especially the awful girlfriend.

No, you’re misunderstanding. Marxism and Marxist theories (across lots of different disciplines) are not at all the same as Communism (which itself also has theory and practice).

Marxist economics, literary theory, social theory and so on are completely different to Communism as a historical political formulation. It’s perfectly possible to be interested in forms of Marxism that are neither political philosophy themselves nor have anything to do with historical Communism at all. Have you read Capital? It was written well before Communism as a political ideology was invented, and is still the basis for many ideas about value, work and wages in economics today. It isn’t about Communism.

It seems to me she was trying to pick a fight, as those topics are always brought out for a rousing debate.
I would have suggested that we not spoil the day with such dark and divisive topics, it being Easter and all...