I will be spending Christmas alone and my children do not care

[Brazien]

Hello,

I have 3 adult children, my eldest DD is 31, she is married and has a gorgeous little boy who is 11 months old. They spent last Christmas with me and DD already made it clear they would be doing one Christmas with us and another with her husbands family which is obviously totally fine and understandable. My next child is my DS who is 27 and then my youngest DS who is 25.

I would say I generally have a very positive relationship with all of my children, we talk relatively frequently and haven’t until now had a large falling out, they haven’t ever raised any issues with me in terms of our relationship and have historically initiated and planned visits. I am divorced and have been for many years, I have no close relatives as both of my parents have passed away and my only brother lives in Australia.

I absolutely love hosting Christmas, it is the highlight of my year. When my children’s father and I divorced we actually agreed he would get Boxing Day and New Years Eve (our children were still small when I got divorced) in exchange for me getting Christmas as it matters so much to me. I have hosted Christmas every year since I got married at 23, I never complain about hosting or resent doing this, like I said it’s the highlight of my year. As my children have grown it has of course meant some years I’ve had all of them home and others just one but never have they left me alone for Christmas and I’d actually say they have instead made quite a bit of effort between themselves to ensure someone is always around to spend Christmas with me.

Tonight I was added to a group text message chat, it included myself, both of my DS and their respective partners. DS1 has been with his girlfriend for about a year and a half, DS2 has been with his boyfriend for a year. My eldest son then sent a message, I’ll paraphrase but it effectively said that due to my attitude and opinions in regards to his girlfriend he will not be spending Christmas with me this year as he would like to spend it with her and refuses to expose her to my “inflammatory” opinions. He said he his brother and their partners have all booked to go skiing/snowboarding instead. They then all left the group message chat before I was able to reply.

First of all, this is not a way in which my son would ever normally speak to me, it was very defensive and accusatory in tone. Second of all, the opinions he is referring to are from a conversation I had with him following a large family get together for Easter. She is 24, French and seems to have an extremely elevated ego and level of confidence that borders on arrogance. I know she has a poor relationship with her own father (her mother has passed) but he none the less funds her life which consists entirely of expensive pastimes (snowboarding, tennis, concerts) and seemingly getting drunk, using drugs and partying.

At Easter she mentioned politics, which isn’t something I’d be keen to talk about over a family meal normally but my DS said that if we can’t have a friendly debate then we seal ourselves into an echo chamber of our own beliefs. She was totally unwilling to hear me out, and kept citing her multilingual abilities, degree and “travels” as reason she clearly knew much better than I, about politics, in Britain, a country she has only lived in for about 2 years. I shut the conversation down and said this is clearly unproductive. I then told my son afterwards that I had found her attitude to be filled with arrogance. She has also blank out refused to attend my nephews wedding as it was in a church and my DD told me that soon after she gave birth she said to her “if you ever want to play tennis or go to Pilates I will go with you; I’m sure you’re dying to shed the baby weight”. DD found this quite upsetting at the time but DS refused to call her out for it.

In terms of Christmas, both of my DS had said they would be spending this year with me, DS1 did not spend last year with me but DS2 did. I was looking forward to this and despite my dislikes of his girlfriend’s attitude, I made it clear she was also invited, as was DS2s boyfriend.

I called DS1 after the message in the group message chat and explained that I had never meant to cause offence to his girlfriend or to him for that matter and only ever shared opinions as she has always seemed so keen to be forthcoming with her own. I told him that I would be spending Christmas alone and I found that very upsetting and asked him to reconsider, I also offered to cover any costs associated with rescheduling their trip. He told me quite plainly it is not his problem that I would be alone and that he felt like I did not approve of his girlfriend and would never approve of him dating someone “intelligent, gorgeous and cultured” as it would make me “insecure”. Again this is never a way he has spoken to me before. He then hung up.

I then called DS2 who said that he was sorry I would be alone but he feels they’ve given me enough time to make other arrangements and that he feels that his brother is right that I clearly don’t like his girlfriend and he wants to show a stand of support to his brother and his girlfriend who he said he thinks is brilliant. He claimed I only don’t like her as she doesn’t conform to my expectations of a polite “basic” girl who just wants to get married and go on family holidays every year.

While I would say I don’t massively like her, I’m an adult and totally capable of being perfectly civil towards her. More so the reasons I don’t like her have nothing to do with her beliefs but her sheer arrogance, ego and reckless lifestyle, funded entirely by her father.

AIBU to be quite upset by this and to believe this is most likely coming from his girlfriend? How should I approach this going forward?

Hardly surprising it escalated in that fashion if the two of you, already decidedly inimical, were discussing such divisive topics, all in one meeting! She very probably was wound up to 90 by the end of it and her blast against religion was effectively a valve letting off a buildup of steam.
Mad to have at it like a pair of enraged bulls.
Next time you meet a partner like this, just chat about classic cars of the 1960s, or your fantasy Man Utd team, and encourage bewildered assent in nods of her head. That’ll foil any tendency to student union-style grandstanding. (By either of you)

Book yourself a fabulous cruise to visit your brother in Australia for Christmas. Buy a complete new wardrobe for it and have an adventure. Drink Prosecco.

Yeah, I like how she got Christmas every year even when the kids were small, the ex was left with boring Boxing Day and New Years Eve every year.

Bet that ruined his fun every New Year 😁

Op I think you've had it your way a long time.

Time to pass on the control baton.

At Easter she mentioned politics, which isn’t something I’d be keen to talk about over a family meal normally but my DS said that if we can’t have a friendly debate then we seal ourselves into an echo chamber of our own beliefs. She was totally unwilling to hear me out, and kept citing her multilingual abilities, degree and “travels” as reason she clearly knew much better than I, about politics, in Britain, a country she has only lived in for about 2 years. I shut the conversation down and said this is clearly unproductive. I then told my son afterwards that I had found her attitude to be filled with arrogance

And there is the problem. No idea why you entertained this. Young people always know better and are always right and any difference of opinion will result in a flounce and/or fractured relationship. The best strategy is to neither agree, nor disagree, give them nothing. Your only responses are ‘mhhhmmmhh’, ‘amrrhmmm’, ‘yeah, well’, ‘mmmhh k’, ‘uhhhaa’ ‘hmmm right then’, ‘hhmmm I know’. Basically just completely grey rock it with words. They soon get very bored of pontificating on their soap box if you do this. And you don’t fall out. Basically you were baited like a bear, and fell for it! This is the fallout.

How about a Xmas in Canada or Australia this year?

Add all this to her expression of excited fervour in kitchen table debate, and she sounds like a real cracker. Anita Pallenberg came immediately to mind. 😻

I'd leave them to it OP. Give them some space and start planning your life without them. Perhaps you could book a trip to Australia OP and maybe you could spend Christmas with your brother?

This. Honestly OP it's one day but doing this could be your new normal and so rewarding. Or perhaps you might have lonely elderly neighbours you could invite round? And the French GF sounds obnoxious btw. He will learn but not by you pointing it out. Let him graze his knees 😉

I suspect some of this is cultural differences. Being frank, direct, and arguing your point may be something you consider rude, but that doesn’t mean it is within her cultural context (conversely, not being direct may be polite to you, but would be looked upon as insincerity elsewhere). My own cultural norms are, ime, very similar to that of the French, and it can be difficult to understand and adapt to what is ‘normal’ in Britain.

You also seem to have quite the chip on your shoulder about her family’s wealth.

I’m certainly jealous of her! What an exciting background.
Maybe her father in Berlin is a CIA sleeper agent, tracking a new generation of revolutionaries who disguise their fiendish politics by going off to the Dolomites every weekend to pretend they are really mere hedonists.

Invite a friend over and you need to acknowledge that when you voice opinions about your DCs partners there will be repercussions. I think it is unreasonable to think you will spend every Christmas surrounded by your DC when they are adults with partners although having said that we never left my MIL or my DM alone at Christmas but then we don’t discuss politics in an antagonistic way. We would often take my MiL to my parents if she would otherwise be alone due to not being able to travel to my BILs. Would your DD take you to her husbands family or do you not get on with them?

If you have made it clear you don’t like your DS girlfriend you can understand she won’t want to visit and your DS will probably take her side.

I do think there are things you can do at Christmas like volunteering or just have a get together for others who don’t have family and will be alone. Or go away on a holiday by yourself. Build bridges if you can but treat this as a lesson learned not to criticise your DCs partners.

I don't agree with how my DS and DIL are bring up my grandchild. Unless the child is being hurt I don't say anything at all. Nothing. Thats the way to go.

It feels like she managed to make you angry and you retaliated. Never do that. They will always win.

agreed

Is this a reverse? Your "inflammatory opinions"?

Your kids have flown the nest, of course they want to do their own thing. Time to do your own thing and go off to visit extended family.

@InterIgnis I can definitely appreciate that cultural differences could be at play, but isn’t respect towards parents an important tenet in French culture? I’ve always thought that it was, more so than the UK, for example.

I'll preface this by saying that for the purposes of giving advice I'm going to assume your description of the GF is accurate.
Her political views don't sound strange or terrible. They sound typical of what people in their twenties bang on about. Remember that the young are often arrogantly convinced of the absolute rightness of their opinions. They don't have the life experience to understand that some of their ideas are simplistic. They are often based on the things they read on SM and heard at University. It's a time in their lives when they are still developing a coherent adult identity. They usually grow less strident as they mature. They can grow out of the partying obsession and recreational drug use too, but I agree with you that it's concerning.
I do find it amusing that she rants about capitalism while being funded to do nothing but indulge herself by a rich daddy. I am somebody who is not a huge fan of capitalism myself and I think that smacks of hypocrisy. She's helping to support the ultimate in evil capitalist enterprise, the drug cartels, but she hates capitalism? 🙄
She sounds annoying but tbh you don't exactly sound like a soothing person to be around either. You sound like you have quite a strong personality, which is fine, but can result in personality clashes. I know, because I have a strong personality myself. However, I do mind my own business and stay out of the personal lives of others. You need to accept that your kids are going to date people you won't like and keep your nose out of their love lives.

I agree with PP who said you should make other plans for Christmas. I part company with them in that I don't think you should apologize if you don't feel you did wrong. Don't be inauthentic and don't let your son use this to control you. If, after giving it some thought, you come to believe you were too judgemental and harsh, by all means apologize.
I do think your son might be heavily influenced by his GF if this is uncharacteristic behaviour for him. It happens. I tend to doubt he will make her his life partner by the sound of it. A coke-sniffing party girl doesn't sound like wife material. Some men have a bad girl fetish for awhile. For now he's probably finding her exciting and fun, but it will likely get old eventually. Try to be tolerant and wait for him to get tired of her. In the event he doesn't, you'll just have to suck it up and accept her if you want him in your life.

This is good advice. She should keep her cool. Our kids are going to do things we disagree with and unless it's something truly awful, we just have to let it go.

Sure, but an adult sharing their opinions and engaging in debate with their parents wouldn’t be considered disrespectful.

I think you need to make alternative arrangements for this Christmas.

Would that be so bad?
How about a holiday somewhere warm with a friend or adventurous solo travel?
Try to see it as an opportunity to shake up the usual routines

To be honest OP you may have dodged a bullet, she sounds insufferable. Also the flounce from the WhatsApp group sounds like something people 10 years younger than your sons would do.

Enjoy your Christmas, whether it's booking a cruise, spending it with friends or sitting on the sofa with the quality street and a sherry.

You should probably apologise to your son again but don't grovel or expect anything to change for this Christmas. The relationship with his GF may or may not last.

The girlfriend sounds horrible. I understand the impulse to open your son's eyes and prevent him from making a terrible decision—but unfortunately, that's a risky move, and now you're facing the consequences of what happens when your adult child sides with their romantic partner. My guess is he's told her some of the things you've said about her, and now he's making a big show of loyalty to her by denouncing you 'publicly' in the group chat.

I don't think there's anything more you can do to convince your sons to spend Christmas with you this year. I'd try to find a way you can still enjoy it, either alone or volunteering—or possibly with friends, if you can think of anyone else who may be alone. While I don't think it's outlandish to hope to see at least one of your children most Christmases/Boxing Days/sometime around then (assuming they don't live too far away), it's good to prove to yourself that you can still have a nice time without their physical presence. Your happiness doesn't rely entirely upon seeing them on Christmas, or at least it shouldn't. You can still talk to your daughter, or at least exchange messages on the day.

In the meantime, I'd focus on how to repair relations with your son in the future, beyond Christmas. With any luck, he and the girlfriend will break up soon and he'll find someone normal new, but you must be prepared for the chance that they'll stay together. It's unlikely you'll ever have a good relationship with her (because she sounds awful), but unless she's completely evil, she shouldn't be stopping you from seeing your son ever again. Now you know to never ever speak a negative word about her again in his presence or to someone who might repeat it to him.

I’d forget about Christmas for now. I would be more worried about your son going out with someone who you say does (presumably recreational) drugs. What drugs does she take and when? Has your son told you this? This to me is far more worrying and urgent to address than where you will all celebrate Christmas.

@InterIgnis A debate doesn’t typically end up like this though.

Mind you, I’ve just reread the OP’s first post and noticed that the gf has a poor relationship with her father…perhaps she’s fallen out with him too!

Oh, I feel for you OP. First solitary Christmas can be a daunting prospect.
I spent my first Christmas alone in 2020, due to lockdown. I was in tier 4 and Boris banned it! I wasn't allowed to travel, so that was that. I actually wasn't alone, as I spent it with a lovely cat. But, no other humans I meant.
I was a bit nervous at first. But, I was determined to have a lovely few days. Lots of yummy food, films, cosy baths. It was fine. Afterwards, I felt a sense of achievement that I'd got through it! Passed the solitary Christmas test. I now know, if I face Christmas alone in future years I'll be fine. 1000s of people spend it alone every year. But, that's not the point if Christmas is really important to you. It's not important to some people.
Lots of time to get your head round it, and once it's over, you'll move on pretty quickly I reckon.
I hope your relationship with your son's gf can grow to be a lovely thing, and that you can both find eachother's great qualities.
You take lots of care

They don’t share the same cultural norms, have clashed, and it’s escalated.

I doubt that’s the whole of it, but I suspect it is part of it.

I agree, I don't think you did anything wrong. It's rude to insult your host when you have welcomed and cooked for her, and her belief she knows your country better BC she speaks more languages is ridiculous.

Your son was also rude to suggest it's bc you're jealous, and not bc she's a ride person, is disappointing and insulting.