Black people don’t really matter but the loss of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy.

[QOrion]

I posted this in response to a short thread on Feminism and Women’s Rights but I want more people to see it. I want to have my say, even if I’m late to the conversation, and even if most people don’t care. I don’t expect many replies but maybe I’ll make some people think about what I’m saying.

I guess none of you are black. It’s the only way you can go out of your way to highlight this man’s ’virtues’. I don’t believe anyone is born bad or is irredeemably bad, I guess that’s my Christian upbringing, but I also don’t understand the deification of this man and the need for many people on this website to paint him in the best possible light. He’s not the first public figure to be shot and killed, even this year. If those deaths were even mentioned on Mumsnet, they certainly weren’t given much attention.

I’d never heard of Charlie Kirk before he was shot and his death had little impact on me. I have serious issues in my own life, people are shot and killed in America every day and there is a lot of suffering going on around the world, a lot of atrocities committed. It didn’t seem to be an incident that affected me in any significant way, even when I discovered his position on transgender ideology. I share essentially the same position on transgender ideology with many people I don’t want to be associated with.

Then I read his comments about black people. I can’t wax lyrical about how Charlie Kirk was ‘decent’ and ‘respectful’. How, ‘Isn’t it nice he gave his political opponents a platform’. And I can’t feel any kind of kinship with people who, knowing what he’s said about black people, still feel compelled to highlight his good qualities.

Let me be clear: I don’t believe he should have been killed. I don’t even support the death penalty in any circumstance, so I can hardly support Charlie Kirk being killed. But I am learning, not for the first time, that Mumsnetters in general, and users of this subforum (FWR) tend to ignore black people and our concerns, until we are useful. Whether that is taking cases to court when much is made of the claimant’s ethnic heritage (why?) or the perennial ‘transgenderism is womanface, it’s offensive like blackface’.

You have no idea and I think it is possible you will never understand just how much slights about my ethnic heritage cut deep. Slights to my womanhood are pretty trivial in comparison. I think this is something white women will never understand. So, you go on singing the virtues of Charlie Kirk. We’ll be here the next time you need to exploit us for your own purposes.

What about George Floyd - a good for nothing career criminal. I'd bet good money you wouldn't dare voice that you couldn't care less that he's dead.

You haven’t actually said what you are upset about. What did he say about black people that you are unhappy about?

Please provide a link to this news story. I’ve googled that name and can’t find a thing.

You seriously can't find a thing on it ? Says it all.

OP you are 100% NBU xxx

The killer was still in the carriage, but out of the camera view.

I’ve been abused and threatened on a bus in the UK, all the other passengers all stared gormlessly. Not one person intervened. I was upset at the time but then I read about the bystander effect and understand it now.

I see that you're twisting it to all fit the "nicest" version of what the truth could be.

Now, if this was reversed : black refugee victim, white perpetrator, all white fellow passengers: do you honestly and truthfully believe the answers would be similar to yours on a post about it?

Try and answer that honestly.

But he wasn't Hitler, was he? He was a man with opinions some disagreed strongly with, but these ridiculous comparisons are what emboldened his killing.

You owe me a tenner.

The poster misspelled the name. I found it when I googled black man stabs white girl and it’s Iryna Zarutska.

it is shocking though. Poor girl.

Apologies if I spelt her name incorrectly. My mistake. Thanks for the correction.

I really think people need to all take a look at that video. It's shocking and opens up lots of questions. That poor poor girl.

I mostly agree (except I unfortunately was aware of him before and was aware that like many on the US Christian Right he was weirdly obsessed
with black Americans.) This is a man who argued life was better for black Americans before 1940 (because fewer parents were separated….rolls eyes).

But I also think you are likely wasting your breath.

Have you actually watched the videos and news reports on YouTube?

I’m saying it as I see it and how the news reported it. Black people did help the poor woman. The footage shows the killer was still on the carriage, dripping blood from his hand.

I can link the video but as it’s distressing, I think it would be better if you looked it up on YouTube yourself rather than me link it.

Back to Charlie Kirk. He also talked about a “moronic” black woman who served him on a till and wondered if she was there because of DEI. Like there are no moronic white checkout operators anywhere. It’s seriously disturbing that so many are denying his racism and that the appetite for this kind of politics is growing.

The news report also shows that a man in Germany did intervene in another attack on a woman and had his face slashed. He has a deep permanent gash/scar across his face and nose now.

Human instinct is to protect one self first and foremost.

Wow your misogyny is shining through with this post with your save our women bs
Mumsnet is not defending Charlie kirks opinions.
What you have is people saying noone should be killed for words that you or I may disagree with.
Yes we are asking for evidence of what he actually said and in what context as we are used to certain sections of society misrepresenting what people they disagree with actually said, (it happens all the time just look at jk_rowling, so now we ask for evidence which rarely appears) much like you have with his comments about positive discrimination vs meritocracy which in the context of the USA is a valid talking point and the racism at the heart of critical race theory, its main tenant is all white people are racist (what other group could be smeared in such a way and not be shut down?).
Then theres also discussions about how certain parts of the left have celebrated the murder of a man because they dont like what he said. Let that sink in people are celebrating the murder of a man and justifying it because of words. If you don't find that horrifying then you need to give your head a wobble.
The extreme left have created this problem by labelling everyone who disagrees with them on anything as racist, homophobic and/or transphobic. Oh yeah we're all far right and funded by the American Christian movement too apparently 🙄. This overuse of these words has robbed them of their meaning and power so now when they are used people assume it's more hyperbole from the left especially when they are being used to excuse murder.
Then we get posts and threads like this one where the op smears all posters on the fwr board as racist and claims we must all be white, whilst you are smearing all of mumsnet in the same way. All it dose is drive a bigger wedge between different groups instead of allowing us to find common ground and makes a right wing reform government more likely.

I “liked” when he insisted immensely qualified black women such as Ketanji Brown Jackson and Michelle Obama lacked the brain power to have earned the roles they have.

He seems unable to grasp that DEI initiatives do not mean giving unqualified people roles.

Some questions for you:

• why don’t you acknowledge or discuss the examples of CK’s racism provided in the thread?
• why don’t you name the many people you claim are celebrating?
• why do you keep saying that ‘no one should be killed for words that you or I may disagree with’, when literally no one on this thread has said they should?

That's racist
Racism is the hatred of a group of people because of their skin colour, nationality or culture.
So yes people can and regularly are racist against white people and get away with it because of the nonsense that you and others spout.
White fragility is a made up term to dismiss the push back against anti white racism.
Shame on you for spreading such devicive racist bs

Be explicit. What characteristics do you want us to 'notice' about POC as a group from this tragic incident and the behaviour of the individuals on the bus? What are you arguing here, and can you prove yourself right? Because there's a lot of mealy mouthed hinting about 'painful conversation' we are failing to have. If you have a position to start a conversation, share it and prove it.

Exactly. Black people would be rioting if Iryna had been a young black immigrant stabbed mercilessly by a white man and all the white people on the bus just ignored her while she died. It seems racism
is only wrong when it’s not effecting white people.

Have you been on blue-sky?
Maybe you haven't seen the news recently or heard about the uk councillor who had to quit the council for celebrating his murder, or the Oxford union president elects comments that even his own union have disavowed or the bob vylon (sp) concert chearing his murder to name but a few.
As for why I keep saying noone should be killed for words, if people didn't keep trying to justify or minimise the murder of a man for exactly that i wouldn't need to.
Oh ill comment on any evidence of Charlie kirks racism when I get to it I'm still on page 1 of this thread and there's none yet

The Blue Sky posts have been discussed a lot here. They all look like anonymous accounts or bots. Can you name any of the people posting?

The Oxford Union president is just one person. Who are all these other people you claim are celebrating?

Who here has tried to justify his murder? Name one person?

You are yet another person ignoring that the man leaning over to help the stabbed woman was...a black man.

I wouldn’t say I “cared” about Floyd (though is criminal past was long behind him) but like many others I do care about the police conducting extrajudicial killings.

Don’t care abut Kirk though and think he was victim of a culture he helped create.