Black people don’t really matter but the loss of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy.

[QOrion]

I posted this in response to a short thread on Feminism and Women’s Rights but I want more people to see it. I want to have my say, even if I’m late to the conversation, and even if most people don’t care. I don’t expect many replies but maybe I’ll make some people think about what I’m saying.

I guess none of you are black. It’s the only way you can go out of your way to highlight this man’s ’virtues’. I don’t believe anyone is born bad or is irredeemably bad, I guess that’s my Christian upbringing, but I also don’t understand the deification of this man and the need for many people on this website to paint him in the best possible light. He’s not the first public figure to be shot and killed, even this year. If those deaths were even mentioned on Mumsnet, they certainly weren’t given much attention.

I’d never heard of Charlie Kirk before he was shot and his death had little impact on me. I have serious issues in my own life, people are shot and killed in America every day and there is a lot of suffering going on around the world, a lot of atrocities committed. It didn’t seem to be an incident that affected me in any significant way, even when I discovered his position on transgender ideology. I share essentially the same position on transgender ideology with many people I don’t want to be associated with.

Then I read his comments about black people. I can’t wax lyrical about how Charlie Kirk was ‘decent’ and ‘respectful’. How, ‘Isn’t it nice he gave his political opponents a platform’. And I can’t feel any kind of kinship with people who, knowing what he’s said about black people, still feel compelled to highlight his good qualities.

Let me be clear: I don’t believe he should have been killed. I don’t even support the death penalty in any circumstance, so I can hardly support Charlie Kirk being killed. But I am learning, not for the first time, that Mumsnetters in general, and users of this subforum (FWR) tend to ignore black people and our concerns, until we are useful. Whether that is taking cases to court when much is made of the claimant’s ethnic heritage (why?) or the perennial ‘transgenderism is womanface, it’s offensive like blackface’.

You have no idea and I think it is possible you will never understand just how much slights about my ethnic heritage cut deep. Slights to my womanhood are pretty trivial in comparison. I think this is something white women will never understand. So, you go on singing the virtues of Charlie Kirk. We’ll be here the next time you need to exploit us for your own purposes.

There's no such thing as racism against white people. White people are not a minority in our society, and hold the power.

I would suggest doing some reading into white fragility, because there are posts here that are pretty much textbook demonstrations of it.

You’re wrong. And racist. But many people just don’t care any more.

These words are bandied around so often they’ve ceased to have any meaning. We’re way past people being condescended to and told to ‘educate’ themselves. People might have listened to this nonsense once, but it’s meaningless noise now.

Absolute bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

You've drank the kool aid.

Hear hear!

That utter bullshit brainwashed into us that White people can't be victims of racism comes from the same 'starter pack' as "men can also be women" . Ludicrous. It's a shutdown to further oppress (yes we're at that stage now- successfully swapped oppressed and oppressor) white people.

Thought it was "equality" we were after ? Or is it just swapping the oppressor after all...

👏👏

Not surprising you’d applaud that 😄

Your views are totally valid OP. CK is a racist, misogynistic bigot, and his defenders/supporters/endorsers aren’t worth a moment of your time.

The only reason he is being defended so much on MN is because he is right wing and against trans rights. I wouldn’t give it another thought.

I'm sorry, we're at the point of suggesting white people are being oppressed?!

Yes it’s full scale delusion. I am assuming Hanlon’s razor…

Nice to see all the supportive messages from the very community that ignored Iryna Zhurvaska dying at the hands of an (also) black man. All the condemning and "not in our name" and "we need to do more to show white people solidarity" "I'm ashamed to be black because of those people".

Nope.....

Yet all of those things are expected, and have been said by white people when roles are reversed. It's a big old one way street.

Which society are you talking about? People on this forum come from a variety of countries.

In the London borough where I work, a recent census showed that 86% identified as an ethnicity that wasn't 'white British'.
My NHS team, out of 15 staff members, 4 of them are white British - our team is fairly reflective of the area we serve which is really helpful.
My secondary school, about 30% were white British
In some areas, white British people are the minority. You are saying that only a minority group can be victims of racism?
Tell that to my colleagues - we have all experienced racism.

"white people can't experience racism "

A white persons opinion is "white fragility"

Two tier policing.

Riots that pull down statues (BLM)are not treated the same way as the horrific riots by white people a couple of years back.

I'd say that was pretty oppressive.

@BollyKnickerz You genuinely need to educate yourself. I am embarrassed for you.

@BollyKnickerz
I must have missed the thread about that murder. When did you post it? Over the last few days I have only seen the threads about the murder of CK. There wasn’t even a threat about a school shooting which happened on the same day.

With regards to CK I agree with you OP. He was a despicable person. And I am white.

Doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. Your version of "education" is synonymous with "brainwashing". We're wise to that kool aid now.

I'm striving for equality. You're striving and virtue signalling for oppression.

They are.

Well I have read White Fragility but came away none the wiser I'm afraid. I couldn't work out what it was trying to say other than you're damned if you do and damned if you don't (seemed like it was finding problems rather than solutions).

Back to Charlie Kirk though, what little I've heard him say wasn't very pleasant, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he had warped views about black people. But I do get the impression too that he knew very well how to craft a soundbite that'd get edited and go viral on TikTok / YouTube, so who knows if he really meant the things he said.

Critical race theory is not fact. Perhaps you should raise your head above your books and open your eyes.

@smallpinecone
Where?

If a black person can boldy voice "white people are all(insert slander)" and have no qualms or fear of doing so, have no concern that their post will be removed or attacked viciously. No fear that they'll be called names such as "ignorant" "twat" "cunt" lectured and berated for daring to treat white people as one homogenous mass...

Yet a white person knows to never ever talk of "black people are all (insert slander)" and would be instantly deleted and attacked (probably banned instantly) and if any valid concerns were raised diplomatically (like a query on why 5 black people turned away from a white stab victim ) they're acutely aware they'll be jumped on and sooner or later be called "racist" or a "cunt"

That is oppression!!!!!!

You need CONTEXT for someone saying prowling blacks and they wouldn't trust a black pilot!? What context would make the above acceptable to you, or explain it in a way that was less racist??

You do realise the OP is doing the same about white people right ? Or does that not count ?

Two tier system ?

Where is the post saying “white people are all…”?
OP rightly pointed out that some posters glorify a man who was very racist and said how it makes her feel. She did not refer to “all white people”, only to the ones expressing those views.

Erm... yes context is key. Because I know next to nothing about CK but from less than 5 minutes of Googling 'what did Charlie Kirk say about black people', even I know that he wasn't saying he didn't trust black pilots. He was saying he hated DEI initiatives.

Edited to say - but as I said earlier he was definitely canny and probably phrased it that way because he knew it'd rile people up and get him clicks.

Ahh, so would it be ok to not want all immigrants out for example but to protest about the ones over here committing sexual assault? Or are we too frightened to do that because they're black or Asian and may be called racist ?

So op doesn't mean all white people. We instantly must get that right or we are stupid ?

But if you protest about say asian men and grooming gangs ? You couldn't possibly fathom out that it doesn't mean one hates all Asian men ?

Hmmm...