Black people don’t really matter but the loss of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy.

[QOrion]

I posted this in response to a short thread on Feminism and Women’s Rights but I want more people to see it. I want to have my say, even if I’m late to the conversation, and even if most people don’t care. I don’t expect many replies but maybe I’ll make some people think about what I’m saying.

I guess none of you are black. It’s the only way you can go out of your way to highlight this man’s ’virtues’. I don’t believe anyone is born bad or is irredeemably bad, I guess that’s my Christian upbringing, but I also don’t understand the deification of this man and the need for many people on this website to paint him in the best possible light. He’s not the first public figure to be shot and killed, even this year. If those deaths were even mentioned on Mumsnet, they certainly weren’t given much attention.

I’d never heard of Charlie Kirk before he was shot and his death had little impact on me. I have serious issues in my own life, people are shot and killed in America every day and there is a lot of suffering going on around the world, a lot of atrocities committed. It didn’t seem to be an incident that affected me in any significant way, even when I discovered his position on transgender ideology. I share essentially the same position on transgender ideology with many people I don’t want to be associated with.

Then I read his comments about black people. I can’t wax lyrical about how Charlie Kirk was ‘decent’ and ‘respectful’. How, ‘Isn’t it nice he gave his political opponents a platform’. And I can’t feel any kind of kinship with people who, knowing what he’s said about black people, still feel compelled to highlight his good qualities.

Let me be clear: I don’t believe he should have been killed. I don’t even support the death penalty in any circumstance, so I can hardly support Charlie Kirk being killed. But I am learning, not for the first time, that Mumsnetters in general, and users of this subforum (FWR) tend to ignore black people and our concerns, until we are useful. Whether that is taking cases to court when much is made of the claimant’s ethnic heritage (why?) or the perennial ‘transgenderism is womanface, it’s offensive like blackface’.

You have no idea and I think it is possible you will never understand just how much slights about my ethnic heritage cut deep. Slights to my womanhood are pretty trivial in comparison. I think this is something white women will never understand. So, you go on singing the virtues of Charlie Kirk. We’ll be here the next time you need to exploit us for your own purposes.

Very good point, well made.

Are you unfamiliar with the tactic of selecting a small part of something someone said to make it seem like they made a different point?

Bollocks. Racism is essentially discrimination on the basis of race. There are no qualifiers to being a victim. That's always been the dictionary definition and you can't just change it to suit your argument like a few niche ideologies seem to be trying to of late.

White people don't always hold the power. You have things like 'porta potty parties' where rich Arabs pay white western women (often eastern european sex workers) to fly over and be abused for money. Literally urinated and defecated on, hence the name. The power dynamic is strongly in favour of the rich Arabs.

There was a recent case where a white Ukrainian girl flew over to Dubai for one such party and was later found by the side of the road with a broken spine and broken limbs (now in a wheelchair). The authorities claim she entered a building site by mistake and fell from height. 🤔

People aren't 'apologists' - they just don't like seeing a young, father of two shot dead in cold blood for daring to have a different opinion. It's just how any decent person would respond to such an event.

But, yes, HE is apparently what's wrong with the world...🙄

I’ve seen the video, it’s hugely distressing. The poor girl was so slight and defenceless. The attack came out of the blue. The killer’s mother has said he had been violent and she had tried to get him committed to a psychiatric hospital without success. He was homeless and mentally ill.

There is a massive issue with getting adequate treatment for mental health issues. I don’t think it’s helpful to call it a racist attack when there hasn’t been a trial yet.

And some people did try to help the victim.

bollocks indeed. I hate this CRT stuff which is peddled out as received wisdom. It’s not.

There is no evidence the US air industry was prioritising DEI over air safety. The industry was trying to attract more black pilots by building academies in areas with a high number of black people.

Charlie Kirk and Trump cynically twisted this into the US air industry employing under qualified black pilots, which is not true.

So yes, Charlie Kirk was definitely a racist.

they cherry pick what they want to make weak points and when that fails they tell blatant lies.

Yep, great. So context is important then right? Because it looks like you just gave us about 3 paragraphs worth.

I just saw a poster say 'Charlie Kirk said he doesn't trust black people to fly planes' and indignantly ask if there was any context needed, with CONTEXT??!?? in capitals iirc, like you'd be craaaaazzzy to want some.

And Charlie Kirk’s legacy lives on through his wife. In her speech yesterday, she was flogging tickets to the Americafest conference, for which VIP tickets sell for $800 each, where people can listen to speeches by an array of right wing and far right white men.

She also said ‘you have no idea what you have unleashed’ and told Charlie’s fans ‘You know what to do.’

Charlie would be proud.

But my issue was raising the point of the black passengers who did nothing . Surely that's a talking point ? We can't pretend it isn't because we're scared how that sounds. Our OP isn't scared of how her opinions towards white people sounds ?

@BollyKnickerz
OP, was very clear in her post. I do not call myself extremely intelligent but even her title is very clear. She clearly means the people who glorify racist CK. Unless you are one of them, the post was not directed at you. I am white to the core but it never occurred that this post was aimed at me.
I am against grooming gangs regardless of their skin colour. Unless you don’t have access to news outlets, you would have seen them mentioned multiple of times ( the Asian ones) so no, people are not scared to mention them.
Also, do you know that not all Asian/Black people are immigrants? Some were actually born here.
Do you go and protest against white British men committing sex assaults?

she hasn’t buried him yet. Look at yourself.

She's not asking you a question. She's telling us something and is using this board to reach a wider audience. This is clearly explained.

Oh give over. I never once even suggested black and brown British people weren't British. you deduced that. christ it's like a David Brent sketch what you've just said ! You couldn't make it up !!!

Why do you need context here? He said what he said, and it was vile and dividing.

Why would you NOT want context? I find it bizarre that at least two people on the thread are suggesting you shouldn't read around the soundbites.

@BollyKnickerz No. OP was talking about people glorifying CK and how it made her feel. You jumped from there to immigrants raping/ grooming women, which has nothing to do with what she was talking about. It was you who linked a black person to immigrant grooming gangs because she was not comfortable with some posters glossing over CK.

There clearly is a black man trying to help the woman after the killer leaves the train.

And the news report says as soon as the killer left, several people rushed to help the victim. You can see that some of those running to her are black people.

I don’t know why the people near her didn’t do anything initially. They were likely in shock. The victim herself was in shock. No one knows how they would react in that situation, when the killer is still in the carriage. Look up the bystander effect.

Not unreasonable for pointing out CK seems to have had reprehensible views. I also never heard of him before.

Unreasonable for suggesting all white posters on this website are racist and don't care about black rights, struggle, or opinions. Id rather not succumb to the divide and conquer approach that these f-ers always try and win with. Or they've won already.

Also, unreasonable for throwing a bomb of a thread and not coming back.

That’s kind of my point. He’s not even buried yet but they (including his widow) are promoting Americafest, for which VIP tickets cost $800 each.

I'm shocked that over 50% of people have said you are being unreasonable - there hasn't been a lot of coverage of his abhorrent views on race, so here's just a couple of things this upstanding Christian man had to say about black people:

If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024

Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that’s a fact. It’s happening more and more.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 19 May 2023

Can you provide specific clips/examples of things he's said that have been racist?

In two I watched recently, he was encouraging two black students to believe they could achieve anything in life regardless of colour.

He does have an issue with DEI but, then, so do lots of people. He asked one student: Hypothetically, what would happen to the standard of the NBA if 50% of all new hires HAD to be white?
His answer: The standard of the NBA would likely go down because black players are overwhelmingly better at basketball than white people.

Is this comment racist?

Absolutely agree, with you OP, Charlie Kirk held and shared abhorent racist and sexist views.

Few people outside the US were even aware who Kirk was before he died .But in death, unpleasant people seem to sometimes become martyrs and figureheads for groups who feel they are not being heard. Take George Floyd for example - multiple arrests and jail time for assault, robbery and drug offences. But his killing became nationwide news and sparked huge protests. And conversations about his criminal past were suppressed, just like criticism of Kirk is.

It's possible to respect a families grief and know that any murder is wrong, whilst also acknowledging that they were not a person whose views or actions we share.

I agree with every word you said. I dont condone murder but I won't shed tears over his death. Plenty of people die and leave families behind. His are no different or more deserving of sympathy than any other.