Black people don’t really matter but the loss of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy.

[QOrion]

I posted this in response to a short thread on Feminism and Women’s Rights but I want more people to see it. I want to have my say, even if I’m late to the conversation, and even if most people don’t care. I don’t expect many replies but maybe I’ll make some people think about what I’m saying.

I guess none of you are black. It’s the only way you can go out of your way to highlight this man’s ’virtues’. I don’t believe anyone is born bad or is irredeemably bad, I guess that’s my Christian upbringing, but I also don’t understand the deification of this man and the need for many people on this website to paint him in the best possible light. He’s not the first public figure to be shot and killed, even this year. If those deaths were even mentioned on Mumsnet, they certainly weren’t given much attention.

I’d never heard of Charlie Kirk before he was shot and his death had little impact on me. I have serious issues in my own life, people are shot and killed in America every day and there is a lot of suffering going on around the world, a lot of atrocities committed. It didn’t seem to be an incident that affected me in any significant way, even when I discovered his position on transgender ideology. I share essentially the same position on transgender ideology with many people I don’t want to be associated with.

Then I read his comments about black people. I can’t wax lyrical about how Charlie Kirk was ‘decent’ and ‘respectful’. How, ‘Isn’t it nice he gave his political opponents a platform’. And I can’t feel any kind of kinship with people who, knowing what he’s said about black people, still feel compelled to highlight his good qualities.

Let me be clear: I don’t believe he should have been killed. I don’t even support the death penalty in any circumstance, so I can hardly support Charlie Kirk being killed. But I am learning, not for the first time, that Mumsnetters in general, and users of this subforum (FWR) tend to ignore black people and our concerns, until we are useful. Whether that is taking cases to court when much is made of the claimant’s ethnic heritage (why?) or the perennial ‘transgenderism is womanface, it’s offensive like blackface’.

You have no idea and I think it is possible you will never understand just how much slights about my ethnic heritage cut deep. Slights to my womanhood are pretty trivial in comparison. I think this is something white women will never understand. So, you go on singing the virtues of Charlie Kirk. We’ll be here the next time you need to exploit us for your own purposes.

Cool racism.

Also factually inaccurate. As this has happened before when a black woman was killed by a crazy white man on public transport.

Not a riot in site.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/10/nia-wilson-murder-oakland-bart-john-lee-cowell

There were vigils though. But not big news and I don’t think the president commented.

No, that is a very over simplified definition of racism, that comes from the same mind set as those who believe misandry is the equal opposite of misogyny.
Hatred for a group is just the first part of the equation. To translate that into harm, the hater needs power over the object of their hatred. So while all hatred of a group based solely on their membership of that group is equally wrong, the impact of that hatred is not equal.
If you disagree, I'd be interested in your examples of the harm being caused to white people as a group, by the racism you believe they experience from POC. And I don't mean an anecdote about a white person treated badly by a black employer, I mean at a societal level.

So well explained xx

Or gaslighting them that their race would not put them at a disadvantage, thus denying the impact of racism on a POC opportunities.

Yes that was me. I think you're CRAZY for thinking ANY context would excuse what he said.
Enjoy those capitals 😊

Oh so everyone celebrating on blue-sky are bots 🤣🤣🤣
Since your not posting in good faith I won't be engaging further

I recently saw this. It was appalling. She was minding her own business, sat in front of a man who stabbed her. She sat scared and bleeding and no one helped her. She fell over and died. The black man walked off the train. He had committed numerous crimes and was very dangerous but allowed to walk free. She was white, a young woman. No mass threads for her!

Yes, God forbid we try and give equal opportunities to those that could be historically disadvantaged. It doesn't mean hiring people who can't do the job. Lets stop pushing for equal pay for women too.

Do you see the irony in demanding evidence of CK's racism but then when you're asked for some of the names of the people you say were celebrating his murder, you suddenly clam up and say 'I won't be engaging further'.

He has not been allowed to walk free. He is in custody and will face trial for murder, and possibly get the death penalty. His mother has said he's a schizophrenic who she has tried to get committed into a psychiatric hospital for years, without success.

He was allowed to walk free before this act. A panel of judges decided he should be free despite years of crimes and violence. He the randomly killed the young woman. If he wasn't free he wouldn't have been able to.kill her.

No one appears to help her

Because none of the crimes he committed previously would have warranted a life imprisonment.

It’s easy to say after the fact but this is not Minority Report.

Your post implied he has been allowed to walk free after this murder. Were you being deliberately misleading?

He has needed psychiatric care for years and called 911 many times from hospital, so he clearly isn't with it. The US has a massive mental health care issue. There is a high rate of mental illness but very limited access to care.

I think you should wait for the trial before making this into a racial attack.

I think the small amount of coverage that story generated compared to Charlie Kirk might help illustrate he didn't get the coverage because he was white as alleged but because he was famous. Very famous especially with younger people. His coverage wasn't because he was white since this young white woman barely got a mention and she was also white.

Her tragic story is being discussed more. A white refugee from Ukraine stabbed by a madman for just being white. 'Ive seen the uncut video, he said he ended that white 'b' life and walked off. A race crime.

No, it wasn't meant that way. He was allowed to walk free despite knowledge that he was mentally ill and dangerous. He is in custody now.

Yes no women on MN are black 🙄

I really don’t understand this latest bizarre fad whereby people think everyone can only think on very black and white (excuse the pardon) terms.

So you can agree with Charlie Kirk on some issues but that means you’re also definitely a racist who thinks black people don’t matter.

I honestly don’t get how grown adults think like this. And so many do! It’s embaraaaing and pathetic. OP did you think you’re speaking to a hive mind and not one MNer cares about black people? I’d actually expect a toddler to have better critical thinking. Sort yourself out and address actual racists rather than thinking all of MN is racist because of a few Charlie Kirk threads

I have listened to quite a few Charlie Kirk clips over recent years and I have not heard anything I would deem as racist. What he did do, that offended many, is pointed out some extremely hard to swallow truths that people are just not used to hearing, and believed that the inequality of outcome is not due to racism alone. Controversial? Definitely. But it was much easier to scream "Racist!" than to argue against him.

The jury’s still out as to whether it is deemed a race crime given the mental health component and whether he will be deemed in compos mentis.

But that’s an entirely separate component to Kirk and I don’t think OP is claiming Kirk has received wall to wall coverage because he is white?

Also to be clear Iryna Zarutska‘s murder did NOT get a small amount of coverage. It has made global headlines and even Trump held a conference on it.

Her story has been covered in articles by CNN, The New York Times, The BBC, The Independent, The New York Post and others.

CK's murder is being covered more because he had millions of followers. How many murder victims have had their body personally accompanied from one state to another by the Vice President of the United States? Did George Floyd get that treatment?

Go watch the videos online of this crime. Its appalling. What he says. The poor young woman did nothing, was totally defenceless, she died alone although surrounded by people who either didn't realise what happened, or were scared to help her or didn't care. After she was on the floor almost dead some people ran from a different carriage to her.

Yes, because the mental health care in the US is dire. His mother has said he's a schizophrenic who she has tried to get committed into a psychiatric hospital for years, without success.

They didn't let him go because he was black.

What does he say? You must have bionic ears because the CCTV doesn't have sound.

I have seen the video, it's hugely distressing. But using her murder as race bait fodder helps no one.

I never said they did!

I used the example of her killing to illustrate that Charlie Kirk didn't have lots of threads because he was white (as she was with no mn threads) but because CK was famous.