Turn your son in knowing it’s the death penalty?

[TaupeLemur]

Kirk’s killer has apparently been turned in by his family - or persuaded to hand himself in.
Trump &’his supporters have been very vocal about getting the death penalty for the shooter.

would YOU hand your child over, knowing that the electric chair would be the likely outcome?

YANBU - I wouldn’t turn him in to die.

YABU - I would he’s a killer and deserves all he gets

Again you are injecting vitriol and hyperbole which makes it difficult to have a reasonable discussion. I don’t have ‘enemies’. I don’t think CK’s murder is okay.

CK did hold and perpetuate misogynist and bigoted views on a massive platform. CantCallItLove‘s excellent post very much encapsulates my feelings about this, in a more eloquent way than my initial post.

That's exactly what I said - the world gains nothing from his death. I don't mourn him personally, but the world is not made better for this; it will only make everything worse. And I agree that free speech is absolutely fucked in the wake of this murder. Trump was already on a crusade against free speech and this gives him fuel to massively restrict it even more. The thing that Kirk supposedly championed!

I wonder if Charlie's wife and family will support a decision to put forward the death penalty. I don't think they get a final say if death penalty is on the table, but its also up to the jury to decide in the penalty phase if he gets convicted (I think). All in all its terribly sad for everyone involved. It can't have been an easy decision for his father to hand him in.

Well, we’ve just witnessed a public execution haven’t we? The video of that bullet going through a man’s neck has been nigh o. Impossible to avoid. Even my children have seen it.
I found it sickening. Killing another young man isn’t going to change that, or change anything.

I haven't seen it and neither have my kids. I also haven't seen the video footage of that poor young Ukrainian woman murdered on the bus. I am really careful with my social media settings as I never want to see things like that.

I agree. We are in truly terrifying times.

I'm not supporting the murder of those on the far left. But if their hatred and intolerance could be extinguished, the world would be more peaceful and more equal.

Their hatred and intolerance of what? Bigoted and misogynistic views?

It’s ironic that you’re accusing another poster of vitriol and hyperbole while describing Charlie Kirk’s views as bigoted and misogynistic. Instead of the endless labels, why not give examples of statements you disagree with and explain why you disagree. I didn’t find him to be bigoted or misogynistic. It’s this constant labelling and appeal to emotion that’s the undoing of the left - they’re incapable of arguing with reason or logic.

What? So we all become RW Maga ? 🤣

Totally agree, if we could extinguish hatred and intolerance on all sides then the world would be much better. Extremism is a problem and as a pp said, increasing radicalisation is a massive danger. It doesn't help anyone to pretend it's all on one side. It's important to keep the facts in mind and be cognisant of where the most violence is coming from though - and that so far is the right, who have committed far more acts of political violence and murder. If we're ever going to make any progress in resolving the situation, we all have to be clear-eyed and acknowledge the problems even when they occur on what we consider to be our own side.

There have been countless examples including videos on this thread of CK’s misogynist and bigoted extreme views. That isn’t vitriolic or hyperbole…

Again - more labelling you see fit to apply and others are supposed to swallow without question.

Give me examples, statements you disagree with. I don’t need you tell tell me he was misogynistic and bigoted. That’s your opinion. I don’t outsource my thinking so you can do it for me. Tell me what he said that you disagree with, and I’ll make my own mind up.

I mean, that's wildly unfair and those of us arguing from the left here have put down a lot of thoughtful and reasoned posts. They tend to be ignored for some reason..!

Also, on these threads people have repeatedly cited examples of Kirk's misogyny and bigotry and been told 'oh that's out of context though'. Context is important, sure, but most people simply do not say so many things that can apparently be misconstrued as grotesquely offensive. It's hard to see how Kirk wasn't expressing misogynistic views when he said that women should reject feminism and submit to their husbands and that rape victims should be denied abortions. These are misogynistic views. You can't excuse them by saying 'oh but he was a Christian so it's fine'. No, he's still a misogynist. A Christian misogynist, but a misogynist nonetheless.

You keep parroting this as though it means anything. It doesn’t. People don’t believe it just because you say so, why should they? Who are you to decide? People can listen to him and make their own minds up.

Feel free to look through the thread and read all the sources and watch videos of CK’s speeches.

I am agreeing with posters stating that the world would be better off without misogyny and bigotry in general.

You don’t have the monopoly here - your opinions are your own. You don’t dictate what views are misogynistic and which ones aren’t. That’s for the individual to decide. There will be women who agreed with him per the examples you mentioned. They can decide for themselves what their opinions are - they don’t need you to tell them what their opinions should be.

In America there’s a really effective way of avoiding the death penalty in cases where you blow a hole in a man’s neck with a rifle in front of his wife and kids.

Don’t.

The bigotry of the left, indeed, and those who seek to deny others the right to hold their own beliefs and opinions, not simply the ones dictated to them.

Ahh, but the left are the only ones who get to set the narrative. Surely you should know that by now? The rest of us are supposed to keep quiet 🤫

That’s more luck than talent.
I will never forget the awful beheadings in the Middle East. I was minding my own business on social media and the video started auto playing. I tried to stop it in a panic & it put it on full screen mode. You can’t unsee it. Often these videos are slickly edited so you see it all before you have chance to close it.

Does anyone know if there is a programme to identify and de radicalise extremism in America? Like PREVENT in the UK (which I accept is not fit for purpose, and needs a massive overhaul).

I do wonder if because of the internet age, whether de radicalisation should be a global collaboration in peacekeeping efforts.

Do you not believe the world would be a better place without misogyny and bigotry…

There's an actual definition of misogyny. You can't devalue and obscure it by pretending that everyone gets to define it for themselves. Women are capable of holding misogynistic views as well, so the ones who agree with him are also misogynistic if they believe that women are secondary to men and should be denied autonomy over their bodies and lives. That's misogyny. People are free to hold misogynistic opinions, and we are free to identify them as misogynistic and argue against them.

His comment about 'prowling blacks' was also a racist comment. I'm sure you have a justification for that too, but again it is a racist thing to say.

Its weirdly infantilising and patronising - women aren’t supposed to use their own minds, they need to be told what to think, who to dislike without question and what the correct opinions are 😁