Had you heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday?

[Havetoagree]

Just that really? I hadn’t and wondering if I’m the only one. And why is it such a big story? I guess the association with trump. What would be the equivalent level of fame over here?

I've never heard it called Telephone before.

I mean I've personally seen the videos of him saying these things, so how exactly is it Chinese whispers?

Did you view the clip? Yes or no? Because it was making a point about using biblical scripture to forward a political point.

Ms Rachel used some Bible verse or another to make a point about Gaza. Kirk pointed out that the same passage has a reference to stoning gays. That’s it. That’s the thing.

Would you like to answer a final question I have? I understand if not.

Are the other views that I cited in my post earlier to you commonly held by 'Regular middle of the road' US Christians?

Yes, I know you defended the raped 10yo comment by saying that he had a religious belief that foetuses have a soul. Other Christians believe that and support rape exceptions. But I get what you mean there.

Still, is that really the middle of the road US Christian attitude?

And is it 'middle of the road US Christian ' to think abortion is worse than the Holocaust?

Or that having gay relationships is like being an alcoholic or drug addict?

Or that gay people are groomers who 'can't reproduce so must recruit' (a direct quote from arch homophobe Anita Bryant).

OK, in that case, you could say he meant paedophiles, not LGBT people. Or only some LGBT people (some obvs are bad, like straight people : see Drag Queen Stiry Hour etc) His sentence is ambiguous imo and Bryant certainly DID demonise all gay people.

Ridiculously, the 3 LGBT people ge was saying 'could not reproduce so had to recruit' all had children of their own!

So, what would you say?

I hadn't, but worryingly (for me) my 22 & 24 yo sons, who don't generally follow politics, both knew a lot about him. Neither had a high opinion of him, but he's obviously been all over wherever it is they get their news.

I'm not talking about his daughter. He said a 10YO rape victim should be forced to birth a child. That is just one example of his mentality.

That's a fair enough comment, thank you 🙂

The performative outrage coming from the right about any comment that might suggest Kirk held some questionable views is a sight to behold. One might almost think it's being deliberately amplified to further the left/right divide by actors who have the goal of destabilising the US even more than has been achieved over the last 20 years.

It's sad that there's been yet another victim of gun violence in the US but a lot of people get shot there every day.

You've forgotten the key point that those wars were fought to ensure we retained our democracy so your views on those who voted for Labour are conflicted here. As for those upset about girls being murdered, they weren't protesting. They were intent on destruction - they were far right thugs.

its in the same vein as many of his other quotes

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk-quotes-beliefs

for instance, so even if this one is mis assigned or mis represented (which I’m not convinced of given the tripe he usually came out with) it still doesn’t take away from the fact he was a white supremacist Christian nationalist and spoke like one of the founding fathers of Gilead

That’s not what he said. He was making the point that DEI undermines confidence. He was likely speaking in the context of the FAA ATC case, which was a huge scandal and undermined confidence in the recruitment processes meant to diversify the field (they had decided it was too white and male)

You are constantly chiding and chastising people because they are not openly stating on every single post that they condemn his murder.

I even predicted in a response to someone else’s post at 07:52 that you would be along in a minute to take issue with the fact they’d failed to add such a disclaimer to their post. And then bingo, within a few minutes, there you were, doing just the very thing.

You seem to have zero to contribute to the thread other than to repeatedly preach at and chastise other posters for not condemning the murder in every single post, even the ones who’ve done so previously.

And now you’re trying to imply that I thought he deserved it, despite the fact I’ve said repeatedly I think it was a henious, unjustified crime. So yes, preachy and controlling with nothing else to say seem like very apt descriptors.

Nobody has said they think the murder was justified or was anything other than abhorrent. You could try taking that on faith without needing to jump on every poster who expresses the view that he held vile views and wishes to resist the urge to beautify him.

Sorry I thought I had put them up.

Yes, I was aware of him and his odious opinions.

I agree that as stand alone statements, they do not sound great. They sound dreadful. The thing is the ideas have been taken out of context. All worthy of debate and that is the joy of freedom of thought and freedom of speech.

The Pill, does make me a little batshit. I know it adversely affects the mental health of other women too.
Women over 30, biologically speaking, are past their prime for continuation of the species - back in the day you were considered a geriatric mother if pregnant at age 28.
Abortion worse than the Holocaust? Abortion kills more human life than the holocaust, certainly - but to say it is 'worse' is comparing oranges with apples.

The other things you have mentioned, I would have to see the context in order to make an informed comment.

But the purpose of this thread is not to debate his ideas, but to see if people had heard of him before his murder. I had not. I have now. I understand why his ideas would attract people's anger. I realise that it suits his detractors' purposes to misrepresent what he said by leaving out the context and wider picture, and to present him as a de-humanised man who somehow deserved what he got.

He was a very flawed human who was loved by his children, his wife, his family and his friends. People are grieving his death having witnessed his murder. It doesn't stop haters hating, as witnessed here and elsewhere.

I’m finding the performance from leftists, the crocodile tears etc equally disturbing. A lot of (white) commentators who present themselves are advocates for marginalised people turning on the water works

I’m not a teacher but I echo what you say about sixth formers. I said to DS2 I hadn’t seen the footage. He warned me off watching it, saying he and all his friends had seen it and it was disturbing. It bothers me that all these teens are watching it and he’s trying to protect me. 😔

If people are going to add character assassination to actual assassination, making up a complete lie, and justifying it as being "in the same vein" as something he would have actually said is not good enough.

Regardless of anything he said, or believed, I don't think there is an example of him inciting violence or personally committing violence against anyone. I am happy to be corrected on that if anyone has the details.

The simple fact is this was a 31 yr old man with two small children. How he evolved politically we will never learn because it will never happen. He could well have become more moderate / centrist and taken his youth following with him.

But as I say we will never know because he was murdered.

That was due to his stance on abortion, he saw a fetus as the same as a child. I have American friends who feel the same. They believe that life begins at conception. I dont agree with them but if view both "lives" as equally weighted its easy to see how they reach that conclusion.

About 40% of Americans didn't vote and many of them are now wailing about it.
About 29.5% of Americans didn't vote for Trump and for many of them Trump is now behaving worse than they expected.
About 30.5% of Americans did vote for Trump and many of them are dismayed at what they've got.
They have another 3 and 1/2 years of this to go and there is a groundswell of anger. Many of them are saying these are NOT American values. Hence I don't think we should kid ourselves that Trump & co have wide support.

I would need the context of these statements, I cannot take them at face value. But if you provide the context, I will ofc answer you as well as I can.

I grew up in this American context, Christian conservative family and community. Although I have left the church, I have nothing but love and respect for these people, who I think are unfairly hated by the left. They are good and decent people and I have no idea why they attract such hate. Maybe it’s just because they are a socially permissible group to hate idk.

But it’s very personal for me. Kirk could be my father, my brother, my son.

I’m 36 and had heard of him and had a gist of his politics but not much else

I think your username is appropriate

that is a strawman, the character assassination as you’ve put it (although I would term it a list of his quotes) doesn’t hinge on that one quote, he said many many putrid things about women, Muslims, black people, Palestinians, the list goes on.

if that one quote has (and I personally don’t think it has) got misassinged by the internet on the way, then ok without clear evidence he said it, we’ll expunge that from his record, but that still leaves the other 999 things he said and the company he kept that keep him firmly in the camp of white supremacist christian nationalist

Same - I'd read it on the news and didn't think much of it (beyond my usual "FFS bloody gun crime in the US") and then DS2 asked me about it.
I've since learnt more about it so we've had some conversations.

Yes, context is everything.

If you put the fact that he said:

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm gonna be like 'boy, I hope he is qualified,'"

Into the context of all the other racist things he said in his persuit of white supremism, it's pretty fucking clear where his toast was buttered.

He hated anyone who wasn't a straight, middle aged white man and actively sort to repress such people and take away their rights.

He didn't deserve to die for holding that opinion, but the world was not a better place with him in it.