Had you heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday?

[Havetoagree]

Just that really? I hadn’t and wondering if I’m the only one. And why is it such a big story? I guess the association with trump. What would be the equivalent level of fame over here?

Why the insult flinging at @LateTubeAgain calling her warped, woke and cultist? She wasn’t saying that everyone with traditional opinions are racist, she was saying that there are racists who are emboldened by CK. if you’re not a racist she wasn’t talking about you.

edited for typo

I think quite a few 'real people' would be annoyed by a view that 10yo rape victims should be denied abortion, or being gay is like being a drug addict or alcoholic, or abortion is worse than the Holocaust.

Don’t I? Why not? I’m not sure what your point is. Genuinely.

What do you wish to say about black people and crime?

Go ahead, if you want.

He wasn't racist or misogynist, and he wasn't extreme. I didn't agree with every word, which is normal. Some I agreed with some I didn't.

It was the extremist who killed him and it was the extremist group behind the killing which is telling people that they are not allowed to discuss things.
I would urge people to actually listen to what he said before judging, in total, not to clips which might misrepresent, or not to editorials which give personal opinions.

If you can quote something he actually said, with exact words and context, which is racist, misogynist or extreme, I'd be interested to read it. He was mainly speaking out against changes in the US which negatively affect the US as a whole in the things I have seen.

Yup I follow him on insta. It’s insane isn’t it - that video of him getting shot - I hope his children never ever see that.

This, a hundred times.

can you link footage of him saying these things?

Thank god someone said this. Shocked that so many people thought he was a decent man and a good debater!! Have we been watching the same person!! Absolutely do not deserve to killed over your opinions, but a decent guy NO!!!!

Hardly anybody has said that he should have been murdered. In fact the opposite.
Not that I have seen here anyway.

They can still discuss that they dislike his abhorrent views in a general discussion. Or do you want to shut down their opinion and cancel the debate?

Systemic racism you say. Here in the West we bend over backwards to be tolerant and accommodating towards minorities, and gays, and various religious groups. The US and the UK are perhaps the least racist countries on the planet.

Yet, have you ever tried being a gay person living in a majority Muslim country, somewhere like Iran or Saudi, where homosexual sex is still an offence punishable by death? Somewhere like Nigeria where Christians are often systematically murdered without a second thought.

Yet we import people from these countries on a daily basis to live alongside us here in the West. People who are intolerant to the Western values of their new host countries. And people like you defend the rights of these intolerant homophobes.

You have total double standards IMO.

Yes. From tiktok.

I think the situation around free speech is different in the US compared to the UK. The politicians there who support Trump have commented on the dire situation re free speech in the UK

I actually used the wrong phrase. It was alternative facts. That is when you just make stuff up. Trumps press secretary gave false information and when called out on it, trumps counselor said he was just presenting alternative facts.

Im all for more critical thinking being taught. It is quite worrying that gen z and millenials are the age group that are the worst at recognising AI and false online information.
I personally don't see him picking college students for educational purposes, but cause it is easier for him. I've seen a few clips and those with decent arguments he just talk over and doesn't let them finish (even if there is a proper debate clock). And he has just made stuff up to "prove" his point and the students he is debating don't have tie knowledge or experience to call him out.
I'm sure he also has some decent arguments and I'm sure there are some good debates out there, I just haven't seen enough of those to call him a great debater.

Yes had heard of him but thought he was a dangerous idiot,with some very questionable views.

I have seen videos of him talking very fast

Do you not think that repeating comments about how DEI has lowered standards when that is factually incorrect is racist?

Do you not think discussing “moronic black women” is racist.

Do you not think using language such as “prowling “ when discussing black men is racist?

I find it very unlikely he’d use such loaded language about white people. I’m sure his (racist) supporters will say oh he didn’t mean all black women, only the moronic ones. He didn’t mean all black men, only the ones who are actually prowling. Of course he’d have said it about a white person as well.

But we know that’s not true.

The US is the least racist? Are you serious?

No, never. I am 66 and live in Europe.

Google is free and someone further up has posted some of his more delightful quotes. He wa both massively racist and misogynistic. This man absolutely did not deserve to get shot for his opinions. But when you spout hate, it makes people hate you. He even went so far as to say he would would force his 10yr old daughter to give birth if she was raped rather than let her choose an abortion. He also said empathy is a made up new age word!!!! What kind of a human being is that????? Certainly one that has no levels of decency or empathy at all. In fact he has been shown so much more empathy over his death than he would have ever given anyone else.

I suggest you watch the Cambridge debates… very enlightening.

It was repeated several times by a couple of posters that CK said that
"black woman do not have brain processing power".
A video was shared by a user called something like MasterBeth, supposedly to back this up, but in which he categorically did not say the above quote or any combination of words that could mean the same thing. I can't prove the negative that he has never said that, but if there was evidence I expect that would have been supplied.

Tells me everything I need to know about you. There’s no point me trying to have a discussion with someone who denies racism exists. Who’s arguments are full of whataboutery.

we obviously have different ideas of what is racist and what is justified. I do find that most racists don’t agree about what constitutes racism. Guess it helps them sleep at night. Have a lovely day.

It is difficult to know where to start here, as all of this is taken out of context. And by the way I am not categorising him as "good" or "bad", I am just fed up of people jumping on bandwagons. Re the black pilot thing, I am not sure he said those exact words, but what he was talking about was a DEI policy to make sure certain minority groups were employed whether they were qualified or not, and many super qualified people not getting jobs.... read into it - he was criticial of the insane DEI policy which has now been highly criticised. Not saying that people of colour cannot be pilots.

DEI should be about equality irrespective of race or colour or sex. Not about special provision for under qualified or unsuitable people who just happen to be of colour or female. (Yes, I was born female)

As JK Rowling tweeted earlier: "If you believe free speech is for you but not your political opponents, you're illiberal. If no contrary evidence could change your beliefs, you're a fundamentalist. If you believe the state should punish those with contrary views, you're a totalitarian. If you believe political opponents should be punished with violence or death, you're a terrorist." Three hundred and thirty three thousand likes and counting. Thank God for rational, compassionate voices who are willing to call a terrorist a terrorist.

And, as Elon Musk tweeted "The left is the party of murder".

Two people from opposite ends of the political spectrum, one who has traditional leftist values and voted left at the last election. One who is right wing and voted for Trump.

Both are correct.

Every single person crowing about the slaughter of a man in front of his young children for speaking words you do not agree with is a fascist and totalitarian, in favour of terrorism and murder.

I don't respond to such scum, just to be clear.

And before yesterday I had not heard of him, but I quickly educated myself and discovered that he was a law abiding man who did not advocate violence but believed in free speech.

Those who have been screaming about the danger from the right with their guns turned out to be the violent and dangerous ones all along.

Never heard of him, still know nothing about it him other than he was a Trump supporter who was shot and killed.

I'd never heard of him, and I do take an interest in US politics. None of my friends/family had heard of him either. His views sounded ghastly, but gunning down people you don't agree with is appalling obviously.