Had you heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday?

[Havetoagree]

Just that really? I hadn’t and wondering if I’m the only one. And why is it such a big story? I guess the association with trump. What would be the equivalent level of fame over here?

Recently a man who helped mastermind the 7/7 bombings was released.

A man a 1000 times more dangerous than Charlie, now free to walk the streets in Yorkshire. The judge was told he's stilll a threat to the public as his MH makes his religious extremism stronger.

I don't think he should be attacked either, bit it's not necessarily the loud ones that are our biggest threats, we walk among those with the means and motivation to actually harm and kill us, the quiet ones...Charlie was not one of those.

Nope.

I'm like "Charlie who?"

Notice Farage & the right wing media are screaming "it's the left wot dunnit!"

Dicks.

I understand that Charlie and his wife shared their Christian views, and that these were the foundation of their family life. And raised in a Christian family, a child might come to share these beliefs themselves.

I’m not defending Charlie’s position here, but I do think it’s important to recognise that the question he was asked was deliberately extreme, designed to test the limits of his argument. He answered consistently with his conviction that life is sacred from conception. You strongly disagree - as many do - but he was not trying to justify rape or diminish the trauma of victims. He was applying his faith-based view of life, however difficult that position may be in the most tragic circumstances.

I'd never heard of him no.

I had not. I live in the US and was more shocked about the school shooting yesterday. They happen so frequently but it’s always shocking. Yesterday’s has had even less press than usual.

Is it a good look for the Right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_shootings_of_Minnesota_legislators

I always find that so hard to reconcile with pro-gun rhetoric though. Particularly on the same day as yet another school shooting. It’s hard for me to believe he really cared about anyone other than himself and those directly connected to him.

Yes, I don’t remember Trump being too concerned about that.

Yes. One minute they’re screaming about the left trying to take away their guns and the next minute they’re blaming the left for gun deaths. While not mentioning a school shooting that happened on the same day.

Would are you comparing stealing a hat to celebrating and cheering a man being shot and killed in front of you.

I’ve a window into the well educated Gen Z populous. I think people would be surprised at how right wing so many are.

I’m 58 and yes, I’d heard if him and seen some if his content. Agreed with some, disagreed with some.

He is clearly devout, as is his wife, and this is what his worldview is based on. This is the lens through which he sees things. This is the basis of his morality.

So yes, he is against abortion. He is a traditionalist.

I don’t have a religion, so I don’t get it. But nor do I think this makes him “evil” or “vile”.

Some further context as follows:

Or stoning gay men for sex being 'God's perfect law'?

I watched this video earlier. From memory, this was a podcast where they were watching a video of Miss Rachel quoting scripture, preaching following God’s perfect law to love thy neighbour. Charlie Kirk kind of smiles awkwardly and says that right before this passage, in the same scripture, God’s perfect law also says that a man should be stoned to death for laying with another man. Basically asking Miss Rachel is she follows that too.

Or abortion being worse than the Holocaust?

I googled this one to give you his exact words:

“We allow the massacre of a million and a half babies a year under the guise of women's reproductive health. We are allowing babies to be taken away and discarded every single year, just saying they are not humans."

"You are using dehumanizing language, saying ‘oh, it’s an embryo’; no, that's a baby, made in the image of God, deserving protection. It is never right to justify the mass termination of people under the guise of saying that they are unwanted. That's how we get Auschwitz, that's how we got the greatest horror of the 20th century,”

Or public executions being good for children to watch?

I googled this one to give you his exact words. He appears to be on a podcast. This one is a bit of stranger discussion to me (but I suppose he did grow up in a country where the death penalty is used), but you will see that he doesn’t say that public executions are good for children to watch:

“Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised. I think at a certain age, its an initiation...What age should you start to see public executions?”

Thank you. I should have checked before citing, clearly some of those seem less bad in context.

It's not just a simple act of theft is it - it's the lack of compassion and respect leading someone to think - oh great, all the security went that way to help the murdered guy, I'll grab what I can.

But that wasn't even the point I was trying to make. The pp posted an example of a tiny little group of people from one side of politics acting inappropriately... for what purpose exactly? They didn't say. It didn't really add anything to the discussion did it? So I replied with an inappropriate response from the other side of the political fence that was equally irrelevant in the scheme of things.

A common tactic among the not-very-deep thinking Kirk supporters on this thread has been to extrapolate the poor behaviour of a few outliers to anyone who didn't like the guy.

A lot of other people die for his ideas. Something like 46,000 gun deaths in the US in 2023. Many of which could have been prevented with some reasonable regulation - something he strongly opposed. So while I didn't wish him dead, I don't see why his life should be worth more than the other 45,999 victims, particularly given that his views have contributed to both his and their deaths. I'm not celebrating his death, few people deserve that, but I won't expend energy mourning him either.

I hadn’t heard of him. I am interested in US politics but I’m too old, too left and don’t use TikTok so it’s no surprise he didn’t pop up on my social media.

My 19yo DD was knows all about him. She’s studying politics but I’m pretty sure she mostly knows about him through instagram snd TikTok!

I posted the below Charlie Kirk quotes on another thread, which I personally transcribed from the original audio or copied directly from his social media posts. Mumsnetters really love to tie themselves in knots to deny a racist is in fact, racist. Even in the face of hard evidence.

We Brits need to keep in mind that the USA is a cesspool of hate and violence, and even the moderate right wing views are rooted in a deep and unpleasant history of genocide, slavery, racism and Christian fundamentalism.
History has repeatedly taught us that after a significant shift or movement towards liberalism, there will always be significant backlash (i.e. 1950s female subservience as a direct response to the rise in feminism and greater female independence during and after WW2)

In 2008, America elected its first black President, just 40 years after the civil rights movement. Shortly after, it introduced the concept of universal healthcare - the most socialist policy America has ever had. Many people in America will have lived during a time where blacks and whites were segregated - racism doesn't disappear overnight so I imagine it came as a shock to white people who may have opposed civil rights movement (in fact, Charlie Kirk has criticised the movement). So, I do think the rise in right-wing extremism is a backlash against this political shift post-Obama.

Charlie Kirk isn’t the first victim of political violence in recent times, and he unfortunately won’t be the last. But he has profited from espousing increasingly extremist views to his huge audience of young white men, and has vocally supported policies that led to the loss of life and liberty for US citizens (I.e. abortion ban, gun control, ICE raids, stripping back Obamacare etc).

Political violence is always wrong but sadly it’s unsurprising- Charlie Kirk has simply experienced the real life consequences of the political hate and polarisation he encouraged and helped to stoke. It’s possible to acknowledge this while also condemning his murder.

Charlie Kirk on gay people: "“Groomers can’t reproduce, so instead they recruit. They go serve on school boards....and all this other sort of disgusting, nauseating stuff"
"[Gay people] are not happy just having marriage, they now want to corrupt your children"

Charlie Kirk on black people: "[Joy Reid, Michelle Obama, Sheila Jackson Lee] are only here because of affirmative action…[Black women] do not have brain processing power to be taken seriously. [They] have to go steal a white person's slot to be taken somewhat seriously."
"“I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified,”

Charlie Kirk on single women: "The biggest thing is this: more younger women need to get married at a younger age and start having kids. The single woman issue is one of the biggest issues facing a civilization. We have more single women in their early 30’s that are the most depressed, suicidal, anxious, and lonely in America’s history because there’s a biological clock that’s going off and they realize that they’re not going to be able to have kids, that they’re not as desirable in the dating market or in the dating pool and so they start to lash out on the rest of society by voting democrat.”

Charlie Kirk's on keeping a woman on life support to give birth despite her being declared brain dead at just 8 weeks pregnant: "A woman in Georgia is being kept on life support so that the child she is carrying can come to term and be born.
I was asked about this case while in Britain. Apparently, people thousands of miles away are scandalized this is happening. I'll admit that I am completely baffled as to what the controversy is here.
Literally none of the arguments typically offered by pro-abortion advocates apply here. There is no threat to the mother's life or health — the mother, Adrianna Smith, is tragically already brain dead. There is no threat to her personal autonomy. There is no threat to her of any kind. It is literally impossible to harm her in any way. The only person facing any kind of potential harm is her unborn child.
In one situation, two people definitely die. In the other situation, a child may be able to live.
Saving lives is a good thing. This is only controversial if you actually view killing unborn children as a good thing, and want more dead children for its own sake."

I hadn't heard of him previously. From what I can gather he exemplified social media ie he utilised his physical self to espouse toxic and polarising viewpoints. Kind of like a click bait come to life. And now, death.

He was no Martin Luther King, that's for sure.

No you're fine, it's actually Vivi0 should have checked before citing.

I'll repost @Trumpthecant who already addressed exactly the same selective quoting earlier in the thread:

You missed out the vital next part where he said and I quote

“When one of the participants at the event questioned, ‘So you are comparing abortion to the Holocaust?’ he responded, saying, ‘Absolutely, I am. In fact, it is worse. It's worse.’

I hadn't, but a good friend posted about him and how much he respected him etc. Initially when I looked him up I was puzzled as to why, but as I read more, though I could not agree with all he said, he seems to have had a talent for being thought-provoking and constructive debate.

It’s late, and I copied a block of text from a website.

I didn’t see that part. In fact, I went back to the site and checked, and it wasn’t included in the text.

So, the full text:

We allow the massacre of a million and a half babies a year under the guise of women's reproductive health. We are allowing babies to be taken away and discarded every single year, just saying they are not humans."
^^
"You are using dehumanizing language, saying ‘oh, it’s an embryo’; no, that's a baby, made in the image of God, deserving protection. It is never right to justify the mass termination of people under the guise of saying that they are unwanted. That's how we get Auschwitz, that's how we got the greatest horror of the 20th century,”
^^
When one of the participants at the event questioned, ‘So you are comparing abortion to the Holocaust?’ he responded, saying, ‘Absolutely, I am. In fact, it is worse. It's worse.’

I don’t think it makes a great deal of difference, though.

He is clearly a very devout man and this is his view.

It’s certainly not the worst thing I’ve heard someone say.

It's pretty crass though isn't it. And obviously constructed to get a reaction. I mean, it doesn't even sound sincere.

Also inaccurate. Auschwitz blatantly didn't come about as a result of feminism.

Again, this doesn't seem to be suited to AIBU. You might want to peruse the Politics forum.

But if it makes you feel better, even many Americans hadn't heard of Kirk.

One reason it's a big story is because he was a big deal for Republicans, grooming the next generation. Another reason is because most assassinations in America tend to be right-wingers killing Democrats, so - although it's not known yet who the shooter was - it's unusual for a Republican to be assassinated.