Huge row with neightbour, AIBU?

[Nikki3009]

Hi,

I moved into a small shared-ownership house on a new-ish build estate to get away from domestic abuse and I'm very thankful for my home, but tonight I have had an awful row with a neighbour, and I feel so upset.

Adjacent to my house, is a row of houses that are LHA - I want to preface this by saying that I have no issue with this, and I'm only putting in this detail because I think it's relevant. I'm not trying to throw shade on people in local authority housing.

When I moved in, one of the fence panels at the side of my house had a load of scaffolding poles leaning against it. The fence panel was buckling under the weight and bits of it were breaking off so I popped round to let them know (thinking it was their fence). The women basically said, it's your fence, your problem. But to give them their due they did remove the scaffolding poles. And I've not mentioned it since even though they've damaged it. I've just had to accept that it'll be down to me to replace it at some point.

They have 5 children, I think, and they are loud which you would expect but hearing them playing in the garden doesn't bother me. My garden is often very noisy because there are lots of houses in close proximity so I just don't use my garden very often.

The kids from this house are always kicking their balls into my garden and they'd come and knock at my door and I'd have a chat with them and then throw their balls back over. Or, if I found a ball in the garden I'd put it back over the fence for them. Again, no problem.

The issue started when I realised that the kids were coming into my garden whilst I was at work (my daughter caught them when she was staying). I think they were climbing over the fence onto my bin, because I noticed my bin lid was damaged one day and then the following day it was worse. The bin hadn't been moved, so I don't know how it had spontaneoulsly crumpled. When I tried to get a new bin my local council wanted to charge me for it, so in order to get a new bin I had to file a criminal damage report. The police did say they would go and speak to them, but I said not to worry as long as I got a new bin, it would be fine.

One day I was working from home, and I was on a teams call with a really high value client. I could hear the kids banging on my front door but I couldn't go and answer it. Then I heard them rattling my side gate and shouting 'oi we want our ball back'. I had to mute my call and ask them to stop shouting and that I'd be there when I could!

There's been lots of this sort of thing going on, it's irritating but nothing I've complained about. They flooded my side alley way by emptying their swimming pool at the bottom of their garden. They're (the parents) just generally just a bit laissez faire I think and don't really have any respect for their neighbours or their neighbours property.

Roll on this evening and I'm sitting in my lounge with my DD and all we can hear is the fence being smashed by a football. A bit later I'm doing a bit of clearing up and I go out to my side alley to take some rubbish and SMASH the ball hits the fence, the fence panel which is hanging on by a thread anyway looks like its going to fall on me.

I shouted "Excuse me, could you not hit the fence like that please". Now, I hold my hands up, I was stern when I said it but I think it was the shock of the noise. When they shouted back 'we're shooting goals', I replied 'perhaps you could move your goal'? I personally think the parents should be telling their children not to kick a football at their neighbours fence or am I just a bit old school?

The next thing I know, there is hammering at my front door and I mean absolute bashing my door. I wasn't going to answer it, but whoever it was, clearly wasn't going to stop. So I opened the door and it was the mum from the house adjacent to mine.

She shouted "who the fck do you think you are, if you've got a problem you come to my door, you don't speak to my children". It was so aggressive, so I said hold on, the kids are smashing a ball into the fence. And she said "you and that fcking fence....just because you're too tight to f*cking fix it". So, I said why should I pay to fix the damage you caused? And then she went a bit mental.

I thought she was going to hit me. The women's husband had come along and he was holding her back! I was really trying to calmly explain to him why I had said something.

She was going ballistic screaming and shouting about the fence being damaged before I even moved in and so I said well they've damaged it even more by climbing over it to get into my garden. She said 'what's your problem with them getting their ball back"? I said, because if I'm not here, they don't have permission to come onto my property. She laughed and said 'Oh you're a fat fucking bitch". At which point my daughter got involved and told her to f*ck off.

I made my daughter go inside, she was so angry, but she's seen me being verbally abused by her Dad so many times that I think it just triggered her.

The women then said that the kids don't climb over the fence, they come in at the side gate (which I do leave unlocked when it's bin day). She was sneering at me, saying they're just kids, whats the problem. She's lived there 8 years and never had any problems until I moved it (what?)

I was mortified by all the shouting and screaming on the street. I was having a reasonable conversation with her husband but even as she was walked off she shouted "I'm going to tell them to kick your fence even harder".

I feel a bit gaslit...am I being unreasonable? How would you feel if strangers' kids just came into your garden when they felt like it? How would you feel about your fence being used as goal and being damaged? Maybe I'm not cut out for being in close proximity to people with younger kids.

And the 'f•cking fat b*tch' comment has just brought back so many horrible memories of all the verbal abuse and the constant put downs. I kow I'm overweight (I'm a menopausal woman, size 16 and struggling to shift the meno weight). I just didn't really need that being sceamed in my face in my safe space. My daughter got it on video and I'm so tempted to make a police complaint, but I don't want to make things any worse.

What would you do in my situation? I don't want any animosity. Clearly she has different ideas of being neighbourly, respecting neighbours property etc.

I'd been feeling so good recently, I'm having CBT, I'm trying to re-build my life and this has made me feel so small and I'm embarrassed because I'm sure the other neighbours heard it all.

Thank you for listening and letting me vent... xx

She needs to behave herself otherwise she’ll find herself evicted for antisocial behaviour. Councils have done it before and they will do it again

report to the housing association. they will not tolerate this behaviour and she risks her tenancy. is the fence your responsiblity or hers btw?

Unless they’ve got floodlights in the garden and with the colder weather coming the kids won’t be able to play as much football in the garden soon so hopefully the problem might resolve itself, at least for a little while and give the OP some time to find a more permanent solution.
If I was the OP I wouldn’t be rushing to have any further contact with the parents - there’s no reasoning with people like the mother. For now, I’d move the bin, keep the gate locked, throw the balls back when I see them and take photographs of the fence each time it looks less stable.
As others have said if the OP doesn’t know for sure already it would be useful for her to find out who the fence belongs to - is it hers, theirs or a shared responsibility?. I certainly wouldn’t be reporting anything to the police, but might think about contacting whoever owns their house on the pretext of telling them the fence is in need of repair.
I have children who are encouraged to play out in our garden which thankfully only has neighbours on one side. We have a trampoline (sited on the side furthest from them) a small play house and a football goal positioned so the ball will rarely hit the fence. Whilst I don’t deny that sometimes the kids can be noisy they know to keep the noise down when the neighbours are the garden and that they have to ask for the ball back on the rare occasion that it goes over and they don’t throw it back. My son went through a stage of wanting to be the referee and as much for my own sanity as our lovely neighbours the whistle was taken from him within hours of it being bought.

I’ve lived this exact situation. They made our lives hell. I often opened my curtains to find next doors kids staring at me stood in my garden, we never used the garden for years as a result. We had the added problem that other neighbours backed them up (which was fine for them, it wasn’t their garden and window being used as a goal!). It never got any better for us. As their children turned into teenagers it progressed from kids playing in our garden, to all night barbecue parties, loud music etc. Neighbours like this don’t change. We tried reporting some things, but the council did nothing.

i had a neighbour like this who played deafening music and left the drive full to bursting with rubbish, which all blew onto my property. recorded the loud music and took pics of the rubbish. The housing association were knocking at their door the very next day and sorted it.

Waynetta Slob from next door evidently

For harassment to have occurred there needs to have been more than one approach with sustained behaviour or a course of behaviour intended to cause alarm and distress. Then you have to prove you were alarmed and distressed. Even then the authorities will not take any action without evidence, and even when you do have evidence it still is unlikely to warrant any more than a pointless wrist slapping for the perpetrator. Climbing on the bin a couple of times to get a ball back isn’t harassment. Leaning a few poles on the fence isn’t harassment. One incident of shouting at the front door isn’t harassment.

I say all this as someone who was subjected to 8 months of threats, abuse, harassment and intimidation. I can tell you it’s not a simple matter of keeping a diary either. I also had photographic and video evidence. They still wouldn’t take any action other than talking to the person responsible, which did absolutely nothing.

In fact the only thing that did finally make a difference was getting the antisocial behaviour team involved who served a community protection notice on the perpetrator which was legally binding and would have resulted in action taken against them had they continued.

Every day for 8 months I was threatened, abused, intimidated, had things thrown at me and was driven from my home.

the police did not treat it as harassment.
the housing office did not treat it as harassment.

In the end I myself (the victim) was forced to move, while the person who was harassing me still remains at the address. No action was ever taken against their tenancy. OPs neighbour may well be heading in that direction but it’s not there yet and even when you think it is, from experience the authorities will have very different ideas of what they consider constitutes harassment.

In my experience they will do everything they possibly can to avoid taking action even when you have photo and video evidence of what you believe is clear harassment. All the perpetrator has to do is make counter claims and they will just say it’s your word against them.

What I am saying here is that harassment is a minefield which authorities will do anything possible to avoid.

Update.

Just want to say a big THANK YOU for all your supportive comments. I'm sorry for all those who have experienced this type of behaviour from their neighbours. I don't know how or why being neighbourly is so hard for some people, but I guess we all have different attitudes to things and standards of behaviour.

Also wanted to say that I don't have any issue with the kids playing in the garden, there's quite a few of them and they're young so they're going to be boisterous. I've always actually felt a bit sorry for them...the younger ones wander around the street with droopy, full nappies, they never look properly dressed or have their hair brushed and the mum is often shouting at them. So I've always been kind to them even when they are being annoying!

I've got photographic and video evidence but I will hold it all in abeyance, making notes when things happen. I really only want peace and quiet in my home. She does have it within her power to make things uncomfortable for me so I am going to try and keep the peace. The bin is now nowhere near the fence, I'll ensure the side gate is locked at all times and I'll get a camera installed to keep watch on the side entrance.

I might see if I can speak to the husband - he was much more receptive and wasn't backing up her crazy at all. I may remind him that the entire exchange was captured on video and that I only spoke to the kids because they whacked the fence whilst I walked past. She escalated it into something ridiculous. In fact, I was thinking this morning, if she saw some kids she knew hitting a ball against her car, would she tell them to stop or would she go round to the parents' house and ask them to have a word? I know what the answer is, and I know I wasn't out of order in speaking to her children.

What she did does constitute threatening behaviour and verbal abuse. If I feel that she is continuing to try and intimidate me then I will use the evidence to get a non-mol order. I represented myself in court once before and I will do it again if it protects my peace.

Thanks for the advice about finding out definitively who the fence belongs to. I've only taken her word for it. And if it's their fence then I can contact the HA and ask them to replace/repair it and then it's down to them how they treat it.

Moving is not an option, doing the shared ownership was the only way I could afford to get something that had two decent sized bedrooms, so whilst I think I'm probably not in the right place, I will try and rub along with them.

As some of you have said, winter means less outdoor play, so hopefully things settle down. The child who plays football is actually a good footballer (she plays for a team), so they should really take her to a proper outdoor space for practice.

Thank you x

I moved the bin so they can't access it and the fence is already 6ft. Their garden backs onto the side of my house (there's a narrow alley where I store my bins).

What about pulling the rug from under her feet and killing her with kindness? Take a bottle of( cheap) wine round there, say you don't want things to get heated and hopefully you can move forward now. You have to live near this woman so it's within your interest to keep things civil , you have the photographic evidence which you can just keep on the back burner for the time being. It would absolutely kill me to do this but I'd give it a go.

If the fence is already 6ft you could put trellis on top and grow a fast growing clematis up it along with something spiky like a PP suggested.

Whilst what they've been doing isn't great, I'm not ready to report them just yet. I will keep a diary. I will get video etc and gather evidence as time goes on. They're a problem family, that much is clear, but at least the Dad seems to be calm and reasonable. That may help.
I will have to think about what to do with the balls that come over. I don't want to be the miserable old sod who tries to stop the kids having fun, but I think the idea of returning them once a week is a good one.

Some lovely spiky decorations along the fence, and some particularly thorny rambling roses will do the job! Stinging nettles in the alley - job done!

Op do not be tempted to appease people like this with good will overtures or kindness, they will see it as a sign of weakness and become even worse. Ignore them and they will evaporate eventually.

@Nikki3009 Thanks for the update OP. Not escalating is definitely the way to go, whilst keeping a watching brief and gathering any evidence. I actually feel sorry for her DH and kids - imagine having to share a home with that foul-mouthed slattern! The fact that he was trying to pull her away while she was screaming at you suggests he has some common sense and self-control. Fingers crossed for you that it all calms down and you can enjoy some peace in your home.

It's not an option for me, certainly at the moment. It took monumental effort for me to get here so I'm just going to have to find a way to rub along with them for the time being.
The children have an air of neglect - the younger ones are always out in the street in droopy, full nappies. Their hair not brushed, either not wearing clothes or in manky looking clothes. Not saying that they're being neglected or mistreated in anyway, but I'm sure you know what I mean.
I've come from a really nice, quiet neighbourhood so this has been a bit of an eye-opener!

Somebody upthread accidentally hit it while scrolling apparently, can't find them now.

Yes, that's what I think. I've been kind, I didn't kick up a fuss about the damaged fence, I've never complained about the kids' noise, I've always given their balls back. Now I'm going to put my boundaries in place and I think the fact that I stood up for myself shows her that I'm not a pushover. She screamed at me and all she got was reasoned, rational responses - it really wound her up, she must have been spitting razorblades by the time she got home!

Log everything. Report everything of significance to the police - for example, the abusive comments and threatening manner of the mum is definitely of significance (and you have a witness in the form of your daughter).

Put up a doorbell camera, and other cameras if you can - e.g. by fence. If there are any signs of aggression or unpleasantness, detach and disengage every time. As above, report anything beyond the very minor every time. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

Your neighbour sounds awful. I’d recommend get a Ring doorbell and cameras on your side gate and garden and not answering the door to any of them again. I’d also report this incident with the footage to the police and HA now and ask them to tell the neighbours to stay away from you. Don’t just hang onto it ‘in case it’s needed in the future’, police and HA wont be able to do anything with it if you leave it for months before showing them.

Make it clear to the husband that if there’s any more shit you’ll raise it with the police and the council and mention you have evidence. Cameras everywhere- they’re fairly cheap for peace of mind.

Dont answer the door to banging again- call the police and sit tight.

I actually want to smash her face in for you. Will be a good lesson for her kids of what happens when you’re rude and entitled to people. Make sure you have a ring camera in garden and front. Move the bin and get it something there that they won’t want to fall in - buy a paddling pool or something.

I don't want to up the ante, she escalated it to a ridiculous and unwarranted level. I hope she's feeling really stupid today (although I doubt she is)
I will have a word with the husband if I get the chance, but I am also aware that just because you or I would be receptive to someone being nice, these people don't operate like that.
My cards will now be marked, if she's unreasonable enough to scream in my face over me asking her kids not to hit the fence, then me reporting her will probably see some sort of horrible retaliation.
I will take my time, record, photograph and make notes - I've done it before to get out of my DV situation. If nothing else happens then all's well and good. Hopefully the husband is reasonable enough to see that I'm not out to cause them trouble!

What a horrible neighbour. She sounds like a right old chap. No wonder the kids misbehave with a mum like that

I'm so sorry what your going through and have already been through. I can completely relate to your story as I have had my fair share of horrible neighbours. My advice and something I did is make a complaint to the police for them to keep on file. Your neighbour sounds like someone who could make life worse for you if she wanted to and keeping something on file with the police could come as a saving grace later down the line. Also get a video doorbell, get everything recorded then. If it keeps happening gather evidence then go to the LHA to make a complaint and explain to them that there is a complaint raised with the police and they can verify this with them if need be. Going into your garden is trespassing so if you can get evidence of that aswell. I know because of what you have been through you don't want conflict and that's understandable but you also have to protect yourself from being the victim here. Good luck and I hope it gets sorted