To think promiscuous men should be shamed more?

[TheJoyOfWriting]

This, really. The whole body count discourse is the latest version of slut-shaming, as it's mostly aimed at women. Promiscuous men are still given status by other men and by women, too often.

The body count arguments that people use against women can be used against men just as easily. Promiscuous men are more likely to cheat. They are more likely to have STDs. They are more likely to have contributed to an 'oops' baby- it takes 2 to make one, and more likely to walk away after w no consequences.

Promiscuous men often dump women after pretending to be interested to get sex, esp on datjng apps, which fuel this kind of behaviour. Women tend to find ONSs less satisfying, often partly bc these kind of men often don't care about giving pleasure, just taking it.

The idea that a man's worth is measured by how many women he has sex with is very bad. It encourages men to treat women badly, and it fuels the incel culture by making men feel insecure & unmanly if they're not sexually successful.

Thoughts? I don't mean we should call Promiscuous men horrible names or talk about them like 'run through' or 'high mileage cars' the way some men do about promiscuous women. But I think they should be shamed more, by both men and women.

I don't think casual sex is bad per se, but I think the culture of it has got out of control, and Promiscuous men share a lot of the blame.

If people like having sex that's up to them. How does it affect you?

I really couldn't give a toss what people do in bed.

And even if someone is adulterous, there are worse things like being financially abusive or violent.

Far more important things to get het up about.

It's not about blame. It's about the collateral and human suffering that's a side effect of others more privileged and powerful having the 'right' to violate natural law. It's grim, and a grim attitude. But when people hold these attitudes I often suspect it might be saying something about their own 'choice environment'.

I've always found slutty men gross and completely unattractive, but I don't much care what they do, as they don't directly impacted me. I avoided dating any of them, so was not an issue. I once was chatting to a guy on a dating site and he revealed his body count and I told him I was no longer interested, politely. He insisted on me telling him why and then he was so pissed off 😆

I think most women find slutty men gross and unattractive actually, the whole greasy haired lothario trope being sexy to women seems to come from other men, I've never spoken to a woman who thinks a higher chance of STDs and treating women's bodies like impersonal holes for fluids is a good thing.

Also, slutty men are far more likely to screw around once they are in a relationship than normal men.

I have no problem at all using the word slutty and will always continue to use it if I feel the urge. It's perfect for a certain type of person. Wouldn't say it to someone's face unless they tried calling me vanilla, prudish etc - all the ways slutty people try to shame normal people 😅

I love how mumsnetters try all the time to police words that people simply do use in normal conversations. Won't work on me, I'm afraid.

Some people seem to be able to treat bodies as a set of orifices for fluids, but we ARE our bodies, and I have no interest at all in someone who can lose count of the number of partners they have had and personally have the opinion that if you're a shagger you have a lot less personal respect for yourself than those who care about who they are sticking their bits into.

And finally, slutty men are at a higher risk of being deadbeat dads or at the very least having extra kids strewn around in their wake.

So there's just no reason women (as a group) would have evolved to find slutty men attractive - higher risk of diseases, higher risk of cheating, higher risk of having to share limited resources and extra kids turning up.

So yeah, I don't think women are the ones pushing the trope.

Can't post links but you can look for
"The State of Affairs" (IFS, 2019): 20% of men with 10+ partners cheat vs. 10% with fewer.
"Personality, Marital Satisfaction, and Probability of Marital Infidelity" (Hughes & Gallup, 2003): Promiscuity correlates with cheating (r=0.80).
Sexual Behavior and STD Prevalence" (CDC, 2015): Men with 5+ female partners yearly have 15% chlamydia prevalence vs. 3% for monogamous men.
"High-Risk Sexual Behavior in Men" (Journal of Sexual Research, 2017): 25% of promiscuous heterosexual men had STDs (e.g., gonorrhea, syphilis).
"STI Trends in Heterosexual Men" (PubMed, 2020): Multiple partners increase syphilis risk (7.5/100 person-years).

Isn’t adultery emotional abuse?

Oh it absolutely is abuse. It totally destroys trust, ruins lives, it's gross behaviour.

Chump Lady nails it on her site, love her reality based articles.

I don't think anyone should be shamed ..what an odd thing to suggest
If both people are consenting adults and having safe sex ,I don't see any problem with numbers ,as long as both parties are happy .
Any women in today's world
Unless living under a bush
Knows the chance of the man being a player is high ,and knows he may well be after sex and then dump.
That's a risk you take having sex early in a relationship, especially before you get to know the man properly
But leaving it till later runs the risk of wasted time on someone where sex is crap.
It's swings and roundabouts,and we all make the choices right for each of us .
But shaming people,has absolutely no place in relationships at all

How many sexual partners does someone need to have had for you to refer to them as slutty as opposed to what you class as normal?

🙄👏👏👏👏👏🙄

Ah, statistics. Garnered by asking people questions. Who is to say they're telling the truth? Or when and where the data was collected? The statistics would be vastly different if you collected data in say, Bible belt America as opposed to London or Manchester, or when the data was collected. Certainly back in the 1960s/70s, in my peer group, everyone was shagging like rabbits at every opportunity with almost anyone, but had a researcher asked them, not sure how many would actually have admitted it straight out.

I have no problem at all using the word slutty and will always continue to use it if I feel the urge. It's perfect for a certain type of person. Wouldn't say it to someone's face unless they tried calling me vanilla, prudish etc - all the ways slutty people try to shame normal people

There is nothing about being 'slutty' - as you put it - that isn't 'normal'. There is nothing abnormal about enjoying sex with people you're attracted to, just like there is nothing abnormal about sleeping with only one person in your entire life.

If you don't want relationships with people who have had sex with a lot of other people, or who have certain sexual interests that you're not into, that's absolutely fine. That's your preference and there's nothing wrong with it. But being derogatory and hateful towards people for enjoying something that you don't personally enjoy - whether that's sex or anything else - says an awful lot about you, and none of it is good.

Here's the thing: nobody 'slutty' cares how many people you do or don't sleep with. Nobody will 'shame' you for your attitude to sex unless you try to tell them that your attitude is right and normal while theirs is disgusting and abnormal. That's when they'll retaliate. They don't care how many people you've slept with or what you do in bed. They do care that you're openly judging and criticising them for enjoying something that has nothing whatsoever to do with you and is harming you in no way whatsoever, and attributing their enjoyment of sex to a fundamental character flaw.

Nobody would be trying to shame you if you weren't being utterly hateful towards them for having different sexual interests to your own.

I think men that lie to get women into bed should be shamed for being liars and manipulative and careless with other people’s feelings. Not shamed for their sexual behaviour.

Also, even if the majority of women don't enjoy casual sex, that still wouldn't mean that casual sex is problematic. The women (and men) who don't enjoy casual sex are, by and large, not engaging in it. Nobody is forcing women into seeking out Tinder hookups or having one-night stands with men they meet in bars. The ones who don't want to do that aren't doing it. If they having difficulty finding men who meet their requirements for sexual behaviour, and/or are being rejected by men who have a more relaxed attitude to sex, then... that's not anyone's fault. Women aren't automatically owed boyfriends, any more than men are automatically owed girlfriends. Men and women are entitled to reject one another for any reason they choose, including sexual behaviour and attitudes.

Bring in the Inquisition(!)

Yes, in theory if everyone subscribed to one (Catholic, in this case) ideology and happily acted totally in accordance with it then life would be wonderful. Ironically, what shreds this theory when it comes to putting it into practice is actual human nature.

The freedom to make your own choices does not mean you’re guaranteed to be happy with the outcome of those choices, or not regret them. There is no ideology practiced on earth that is free from human collateral and suffering. There is always a price to pay, and I would always choose to pay the price for freedom than I would choose to pay that of the alternative (incidentally, my family lived under Communism, so my ‘choice environment’ is most definitely one that values the rights of the individual to make choices for themselves).

Sex is one of the most natural things in the world...

Consent isn't a violation

Regretting something doesn't make it grim

Yes. Sometimes people consent to sex that they regret. And... honestly, so what? We all regret things all the time. People make mistakes and are annoyed with themselves afterwards and, hopefully, try not to make that same mistake again. People often regret their marriages, for example, but I don't see the people who rail against casual sex on here railing equally about the institution of marriage and calling it fundamentally harmful just because some people make a mistake in marrying the wrong person. I've regretted changing jobs before, which frankly had a lot more impact on my life than an ill-advised shag. That doesn't mean that it was anyone else's fault or society pressured me into it.

I really don't know why having sex and later thinking 'You know, that really didn't make me happy, and I wish I hadn't done it' is somehow worse than any other regret someone might have, and why we'd blame society for that rather than just making a choice that didn't work out for us.

Making decisions and discovering we regret them later on is how we learn what we do and don't like

Yes I’ve never experienced any negative attitudes about it, just both sexes enjoying themselves.

And so the pendulum swings back and forth. Is there a synthesis that offers a better sum total of 'happiness'? Those whose 'choice environments' were more restrictive and Conservative than native liberals do tend to fare far better when they are presented with 'freedom', the residue of their upbringing gives them more balance than the full pelt free for all

I don't think you understood my comment.

I was brought up in restrictive choice environment to use your phrase.

How are you measuring “fare better”?

Im perfectly happy in my life and sexual relationships. I’m partnered now, but I wasn’t for a long time and I had a great time having sex and enjoying myself.

As many as I choose. You don't get to decide my opinions for me you don't get to interrogate me, you don't get any input at all on anything I think. Not ever.

I give absolutely zero fucks about your attempts to shame me and others for holding opinions that trigger you.

Ciao :)

I feel like you wrote this post stamping your feet 😂

I don’t think anyone should be judged by who and how many sexual partners they have. It has nothing to do with their personality or their morals, their judgement or their capacity to do good. It’s just not important. So no I don’t think men should be judged more, I think women should be judged LESS.

Well I think you have just demonstrated why plenty don't agree with your mindset 😄

Love this.

I also dislike players immensely. Total lack of respect for people. Just a hole to fill.