DSD, houseshare and the Cleaner

[Ihavetoask]

So go on, I'll do one. It isn't a major issue. Just one that came up lately.

DSD is in Uni and she is in a houseshare with two others. One person has their partner stay at least 50% of the time without paying more but DSD doesn't care. Rent, utilities and bills are comfortably covered by the 3. Her mum and dad help her out - she works a bit, too, but her course is demanding of time and academic work so she can't work as much as the average uni student. Most people in her class do not work.

DSD is a great young woman and always has been. She contributes in all ways in both her family homes. Great with her younger siblings, changed nappies, will wash bins, whatever. No complaints at all. What I want you to take from that is that she isn't incapable or lazy.

In the houseshare, they sensibly came up with some basic ground rules about cleaning up after themselves as they go and, the focus of this thread, they would rotate doing a deep clean of all the communal areas. So once every three weeks, it's DSD's turn to do the two reception rooms, two bathrooms (one she doesnt use as her bedroom is downstairs), kitchen and hallways/stairs.

As I said earlier, her mum and dad cover her expenses plus she has loans and works a bit. I thought my contribution could be to pay for a cleaner to do her turn every three weeks (£50). I actually suggested it when she told us about the arrangement. However, the other housemates haven't been happy about it.

The first issue was that they didnt want the cleaner to be there unaccompanied, even though they all lock their rooms. Me and her dad said fair enough, not everyone is okay with that and it is a shared space. But really it seems they're not okay with her not actually doing it herself. However, DSD really likes the idea. She does find it somewhat different to clean the bathroom behind people who arent family.

They went to the LL about it and the LL said they have no issues and there isnt anything they could do to make her stop especially as she's there, too. I really think the LL likes the idea of a pro cleaner coming in regularly tbh.

We've said that she should basically ignore them and we've carried on hiring the cleaner.

And just to point out from my extensive background, the cleaner is cleaning one bathroom DSD never uses AND there is actually a fourth person who is there regularly but doesn't pay and doesn't take a turn. All of which DSD doesn't complain or care about at all.

So, are we being unreasonable?

Not wanting to do something isn’t the same thing as not being able to do something.

Perhaps this will teach her flatmates valuable life skills. Given that they think they can demand that OP’s DSD must personally clean because ‘it’s not fair’, it’s about time they were disabused of the notion that it has to be.

Genuinely interesting one! I could have gone both ways on this.

Strictly, your DSD can, of course, get a cleaner in to do her share if she can afford it. The others grounds for objecting are silly. She can spend her money on what she chooses including making her chores easier.

But... I think this is a situation where optics matter more than being right. And the message she risks giving is that she's a princess, she doesn't pull her weight and she can make as much mess as she likes because she never physically cleans it up. None of those may be true about her, but they are still the messages it sends.

Personally, I think you were wrong to offer to pay for a cleaner for just her. It upsets the balance of things in the flat; house shares rely a little bit on a pretence of equality. You'd have been better to pay for the whole flat, including bedrooms, to be done every few months. Then you'd have been someone's magnanimous relative that everyone loves - like the parents who arrive with wine, or shout a friend for lunch.

I think this is possible but the fact that they all saw a rota as an immediate priority makes me think they'll do an alright enough job that it won't be too bad by the third week. The cleaner quoted the £50 and said she estimates it will take 2-3hrs each time.

It should be one in every 4 weeks as boyfriend staying there too!

Dsd not unreasonable to have cleaner. However if the other flatmates are not comfortable as a compromise I would split the cleaning differently so she isnt cleaning the bathroom she doesn't use. Eg clean or split cleaning of the bathroom you use. Rota for kitchen/living room.

That's wrong, the landlord can't rock up any time they like

Interesting. I wonder how the discussion went? I can see that it's a question that's going to be wildly entangled with all sorts of woolly social-justice-infused class-warfare-entitlement-fairness arguments...in our case, we were postgrads, and assumed to be paying our own way (parental involvement was not assumed or mentioned, although for all I know, one or more girls had parental contributions. It was assumed to be private information.). So it just boiled down to economics: is it worth it, to all three of us, to pay the price of a pub lunch every two weeks to sort out this major source of conflict? Put in those terms, we thankfully agreed.

In purely logical terms, one can't fault one person outsourcing her chores: as long as they get done, it's not really the others' business how, as long as the outsourcing is to a professional and not to a randomer. But in interpersonal terms, it's bound to breed resentment among those that believe they can't afford it, even if, if they actually sat down and did the numbers, they probably could.

I can think of much better ways to do your bit….like spending £50 on a luxury shop every 3 weeks with things she wouldn’t normally buy herself.
they all agree to take their turn to keen, you shouldn’t have got involved.

id have thought it was ‘off’ when I was a student and probably taken the piss out if my friend, but I wouldn’t have bothered going to ll etc.

Cleaners are less privileged? Careful, your snobbery about cleaners is showing there, you might want to tuck it back in.

Plenty of people do cleaning because it is flexible sled employed work. They offer a high quality professional service. It isn't elitist to employ someone better qualified for the job.

I think it's likely to cause a rift between DSD and her flatmates because she is bringing a stranger into their home. The boyfriend who visits will be there with his gf, the cleaner will be there alone. The cleaner won't be in the bedrooms but people still have personal items in their living room and bathroom. Going to the landlord and saying his approval is more important than the flatmates will also not go down well. Saying she doesn't like cleaning a bathroom used by other people is a red herring, as the others have to.

The cleaner isnt there alone any more. That happened once.

Why would that be better? What if DSD finds this better than some fancy food and toiletries? As in, improves her quality of life more than that would?

The key difference is if as a young adult supporting herself she doesn’t have the money for fancy food, then she doesn’t have the money and gets basic food. But if she doesn’t have the money for a cleaner and grew into adulthood with one, what happens over and over again is they live in shit as they lack the basic skills and prioritisation to do it themselves (or if a man they get a girlfriend to help out, though that’s unlikely here)

It's interesting you think this way. In practical terms, what does it matter if some fellow students think she is a princess because she outsources some chores? I think that your need to be liked or admired in some way by these individuals would have to be pretty high for that to matter that much. They'd have to be key to your career or social life or something. DSD doesn't have this dynamic with her housemates.

I think that the others would definitely not be happy with a cleaner in their room, and I'm not sure that it is anyone's job to clean the other housemate's bedrooms anyway. I wouldn't do this if DSD had a room in halls. It's just because they are lucky enough to have quite expansive communal areas. They have two reception rooms purely because one bedroom can only be accessed through the second reception room so that can't be used as a bedroom. But of course that means more cleaning than a lot of places they could be in.

But I know that she can cook and clean wnd stuff because she contributes fully at both her homes. If I felt she was lacking these skills, I may not have piped up and suggested it unless it was a case of her not being able to have a place to stay otherwise.

I’d imagine it’s jealousy and the other two feeling she’s not taking her ‘proper’ turn- they have to physically do it and her outsourcing it is the issue, not the having someone- if you’d offered to have a cleaner do it every 2 weeks and none of them had to, can guarantee they would not have any objections!!! One of them has a free loading partner living there, so that opinion counts for less than nothing. Does she plan on staying living with these people next year? Maybe explain that she has some issues around the toilet cleaning, so this way she isn’t ’triggered’ By others dirt, but is still fulfilling her expectations? But it’s jealousy. I’d juts be glad that it was being done- and yes, I’d be jealous they weren’t having to scrub the loos 😆

Also, quite a few people have made this 'she doesn't want to get her hands dirty' argument. She's a HCP student! Probably comes into contact with all sorts of unpleasant matter on placement. She won't be deprived of these 'life skills'

I think this arrangement and your overinvolvement is odd. You’re encouraging her to be precious - no one enjoys cleaning shared bathrooms but most of us do it at some point in our lives. And her housemates have the right to not want a stranger in their house. Going to the landlord would also get my back up if I were them.
I think you should take a step back from this adult woman’s life and let her stand on her own two feet. That’s really independence

It’s not about needing to be liked or admired or the flatmates having any kind of influence over her life. It’s about making life easier for herself. Surely even the most black and white thinker who doesn’t care if people like them can admit that it would be unpleasant living in a flat share where every other member thinks you’re a snobby entitled little madam?

Having a cleaner makes life easier for herself.

It would be unpleasant living in a flat share where your roommates think they’re entitled to demand you pander to them because they’re butthurt over the resources available to you. I’d take being thought of an entitled madam over that every time.

I can see it on an emotional perspective... But logically?? The cleaning is being done!!

I'd be delighted if I was housemate....

They seem to want her to 'suffer' in some way.... Especially cleaning areas she doesn't use as she lives downstairs... Abd her used areas are the ones the other housemates and freeloading boyfriend use!

I know this is totally not the issue, but my main thought is you should let the girl live in the real world - she only has to clean once every three weeks and you hire her a cleaner?!

I personally wouldn’t have offered this as it was guaranteed to drive a wedge between housemates as they will obviously see it as her being a princess who can’t possibly clean. Having a good relationship with housemates is pretty important in my experience and outsourcing your share of chores in a student household is bound to set hare’s running. Obviously you mean well and it’s a generous offer but unless she was actually unwell then I would not have considered this.

Her share is getting done but I think they’re basically thinking she’s not doing her share. Must be a horrible environment for all of them including your dd, is she actually friends with them? I think the set up is a bit mad, one person doing all the work every few weeks as opposed to a rota of one doing this room etc etc!

I’d be worried that the others won’t actually take their turn but rely on the cleaner coming when it’s DD’s turn

Just drop the cleaner. Give her the cash and she can clean up for herself. Relations with flatmates far more important that having a cleaner. Are you all loaded or something?