OH wants me to leave PT job to work FT....

[GreenLemonHedgehog]

My OH wants me to leave my part time job, it doesn't pay that well although it's term time. I do 3 days pw tutoring. Start at 9 and finish at 2.30. This gives me enough time to collect the kids/school run morning and afternoon. We have 4 children, they are at primary school.

My 2 days off; one day is spent on washing, housework, errands. The other day is spent volunteering for a SEND organisation. I advise parents on the phone, help with the EHCP process and other things. I plan to move into a local authority role in a year's time, which has scope for progression as kids get older, better salary and flexible/home working with liklihood of term time working. (I had an interview recently for this very job, it went really well but they needed a little more experience and asked me to keep in touch.)

OH and I agreed this was a good plan and both happy with it. Now he's exploding,
telling me to leave my job and just get a better paid job anywhere else, doing anything. He feels weighed down as the breadwinner and wants more from me financially. He's told me he expects me to bring in 2k pm to lift the burden. I'm no where near that. I have an 8y gap in employment due to children and had a rough time with my MH during that time. I've just started dipping back in and now feel completely responsible for his satisfaction with life and money.

I've explained I'm trying to help as much as I can, and my wage goes into the pot. I've explained we need to think about school runs, him wanting me to just go and find anything else will mean unlikehood of term time working, or hours not compatible with school, who will care for the children? 4 is a lot. The school run wrap around care but it is expensive, £400 pm for 4 children.

I want to contribute more but I'm struggling with his expectations, which I feel are quite demanding and unrealistic. It's caused a huge argument and he is now passively aggressively sending me jobs to apply for.

He says I'm not doing enough to contribute financially, I feel like he only sees money as worth and can't see anything else. He works very hard, long hours/early mornings, I know he is feeling burnt out. We've gone through finances and cut backs.

I feel like I'm juggling a lot already. I get the feeling he resents me, feeling I have the 'easy ride,' which I don't feel is fair at all.

When I try to explain my feelings or respond to his views, I'm dismissed and 'talking boll***s.'

AIBU???

I work beside my partner in business. We also have 4 children to look after plus ourselves it's not cheap. My partner has never bullied me into work even in times of struggle we have worked through it. Over the years we have developed our business so we can live comfortably. We command how much we earn or how little. Over the years we have been involved in air-conditioning, electrics, gas safe and now surveying. We move to where the money is and we had to work hard and learn those skills. The beauty is we know our worth and we go out there and earn it. It's only in business you get financial freedom to earn what you want and when.

It's petty shite like this that fewer people are going into relationships. It'd be like him presenting a bill for all the value he brings. The reactions you'd get if men presented bills for the value they bring to a family. Hang that new door, paint this bedroom, drop the car at the garage, etc. (yes, I know I've gone complete stereotype to hammer home a point) - you're assuming he doesn't pull his weight around the home, etc, you're assuming he works 36 hours a week and sits on his arse all day.

For all you and I know, he's pulling in 60/70 hour workweeks and is feeling burnt out physically and emotionally. It could be easy to feel like he's not being supported.

I love the fact that you think making the OP’s contributions to the family clear is “petty shit”. And the reason fewer women are going into relationships is because more and more women are waking up to the bullshit and refusing to be a workhorse for a man.

What I would say is “petty shit” is the OP’s husband telling her she is talking bollocks, telling her she is getting an easy ride and dismissing her when she tries to actually have an adult conversation about their finances. And if the poor diddums feels like he isn’t being supported then maybe he can outsource some of his needs to his mother, as the OP is clearly busy mothering their own children.

And if we want to begin with costing up a bit of DIY, I’d begin by costing up the full amount it has cost OP to carry and birth 4 children (including the financial impact maternity leaves will have had on her future earning potential) and then we can look at the cost of a bit of painting.

I am amazed at how many men still expect the women in their lives to be “traditional” mothers and wives and yet seem to struggle with doing their own “traditional” duty: bringing in a wage that is big enough to support the families that they have created. She has done and is doing her bit-he needs to crack on and do his.

How is any of this relevant to OP's query?

The problem is what he is bringing home ain't enough. He needs to get up and add something to his business that will help grow his earning potential. It will be a few years before op will see 2k in the bank she has children to fit in to her busy schedule. In the meantime what's he going to do about it? Whining about it won't help he needs to get up and look at how his business can make a profit. Op is doing her bit. If he wants to play businessman then be a businessman and work on your business.

Yes it is easy to see how he feels unsupported in your example and that is the problem because like you he underestimates all of the petty shit that goes on, the house that miraculously always looks the same, the kids that somehow get signed up for stuff and to places on time, school places that just happen to be there all of that stuff

because he is presenting a bill isn’t he he is saying that he needs her to match his financial contribution and all of the stereotypes you say how often have you done them - the car gets dropped at the garage once maybe twice a year, doors get replaced what once every few years, paint the bedroom similar.

if those are the tasks you think your wife should be grateful for then I suspect you are massively underestimating the work she does

Seriously! I mean how many new doors have needed hanging in your house? How much painting of walls is needed in the average year? Compare that to how many loads of washing, meals to cook, nappies to change etc etc etc. Men continuously overestimate what they do while underestimating what women do. There are literal studies on this.

Give me 70 hour work weeks over looking after 4 children and an ungrateful husband any day.

I mean, you're just hitting my points home; we don't know what he does or his reasons for asking his wife (assuming they are married) to work FT. And as much as you may hate to admit this, i'd put very good money that many, many families still follow 'traditional' roles - you dismissing a 'bit of painting' is like him dimissing dropping the kids off at school - they both have their value but you seem to think it's perfectly okay to dismiss one over the other - I even said i used hard stereotype for way of proving a point.

You're making it sound like he forced her to have kids, I mean, we don't know he could have done. But if not, she should bear 50% of those costs you so eloquently put across. See how stupid that sounds.

Excellent.

If he's going to 'do what you do' tell him to prove it. He takes the reins and working full time to show you how it's done.

Tbh it looks like you would be better off separating. He can pay CM and you can carry on with your plan. It's a good plan. Then he can rattle around the house working and looking after himself.

She already has borne those costs. That’s my point. She has already more than contributed to the creation and ongoing care of the family. Now he needs to do his part.

I will never understand why so many men bother to get married and have families when they clearly hate women. Oh yeah, it’s because they think it entitles them maid service for the rest of their lives.

I would be ashamed of myself for asking my wife to do even more than she is already doing having given me 4 children because I wasn’t earning enough money. Maybe less time spent berating his wife and more time spent upskilling will do the OP’s husband some good.

No, I know my wife does more around the house than I, but that's not saying I don't pull my weight. Bedtimes, showers, etc., it's a partnership. And I never said my wife should be grateful for any tasks I do.

I recently unclogged a main sewer drain on my house. We could have called Dynorod at a cost of probably 500-1000 quid, but nope, I got my old rods out and sorted it myself, I didn't say look at me, marvel at this work i have done, can I have £500 please. it's a job that had to be done as a family unit, and it's a shitty job that fell onto me.

I didn't ask what the problem was, I asked how your advice is relevant.

Once again (and I'm not sure how many more times I can this if you're not going to address it), you have zero knowledge of his work – what sector, what income, what outgoings, what hours, what locations etc etc etc.

The advice to 'do better in business' is vague and unhelpful.

It's about as helpful as me explaining my set up – I have twins too. Worked full time since they were 6 months old. Upskill and get a job high paying enough to pay for childcare. Take on side work in the evening to make up any shortfall. DH also worked full time. Which isn't useful at all.

Oh well done you-did she give you a badge?

Absolutely no clue.

It's just another perspective, isn't it?

This man is questioning why OP's job brings in so little so It doesn't hurt for OP to consider why his business brings in so little either.

He also hasn't offered any genuine solutions to their childcare problem.

You have zero idea what his job or education level is; it looks like you're coming from a privileged outlook on this, where opportunities to upskill are not only available to you, possibly for free, and you have the learning capacity for those, and you can dedicate the time to better yourself.

You talk about traditional roles, but then come out with crackers such as

' Now he needs to do his part.' and this one

'I would be ashamed of myself for asking my wife to do even more than she is already doing having given me 4 children because I wasn’t earning enough money.'

You've no idea, and the way you're talking, so dismissively against men, then ark on about traditional roles and that he should be 'ashamed' to ask for help from his wife, perhaps he should keep that stiff upper lip or just play his traditional role and earn more money while his wife looks after the home?

I'm not sure which side you're batting for, the traditional men must provide or we're a team and I need help.

He sounds like he isn’t coping well with the pressure of being the main breadwinner.

Why do you think this is? Because this is the real issue here.

Does your expenses exceed your income?
Do you have a lot of debts?
Is his job at risk or is he under additional pressure at work?
Could you work 5 days part time school hours to bring in more income?

On the unrealistic demands you just need to show him why it’s not possible. E.g a full time job would pay X, childcare would be Y therefore this leaves X-Y.

@GreenLemonHedgehog I hope that I can add something and will try to avoid going over points that have already been made.

Your partner is being quite unpleasant in the way that he is going about this (especially as your twins have started school this week and you have barely drawn breath). However, the grain of truth is that you probably do need to look objectively at your work and see if it is actually going to 'work' for your family long term.

Does what you are doing make sense financially? I know it is worthwhile in other respects (What could be more worthwhile than supporting the parents of children with SEND!) but unfortunately, having made the decision to have four children (there is almost always a decision point, even though many people don't like to consider it as such for understandable reasons) it means that you absolutely must prioritise funding your family beyond fulfilment, social purpose or doing the work that is most meaningful to you. Ultimately, your first duty is to your own children and you don't have the financial leeway that a parent of one or two children might have.

The volunteering is probably very rewarding and I have done somewhat similar 'helpline' volunteering myself, but I would put an absolute time-limit on it. Perhaps the end of 2025 or Easter at the latest? After a year or so it is already solid on your CV and you probably won't learn much more from the role. If you were at a different life stage then you could continue for years, but unfortunately that is not where you are at present.

Tuition: I notice that you said 'not many kids' are coming forward for the agency tutoring. Are you paid only for the hours that you actually tutor? I wonder if you might be making yourself available for work and therefore tying up your time, but not actually bringing in enough.

Looking more widely, the economy is changing, work is changing and even education is changing. Can parents actually afford to pay for this service? Could internet or AI tools begin to fill that need for tuition? Take an objective look at the demand for this service and how it is likely to pan out in future.

Another way to look at this might be to do something with social purpose, but make sure that you earn the profit from it, by setting up your own tuition agency. What is the gap between what the agency charges and what it pays you? Why can't you do the same? To get a bit Marxist, you would then control the means of production and therefore be able to both earn more and also control your life...

Are you a qualified teacher? If you are then perhaps consider a role in a SEND school, even if it is a TA rather than a teaching role.

There is a lot of competition for jobs at present so I would avoid pinning all your hopes on the SEND job. I have also heard that the SEND case-officer roles for local authorities (if that is the other role in question) are often very pressurised and unfulfilling, because that person is needing to say 'No' to funding provision a lot of the time. Not fun and I am not sure that I could do it...

*

On another note, it's interesting how times change. I have been on Mumsnet since 2010 and I think if a similar message had been posted at the time then the balance would have been in favour of the OP continuing in her present role/family-focused way of live. I think the introduction of the 30 hours of childcare along with the cost of living crisis has gone a long way to normalise the idea that both parents can or should work full time, although it often isn't that straightforward...

I'd agree with this somewhat. I think when you have a traditional set up, the issue is more often incomprehension of the other's experience, exacerbated by one's experience being relative. As opposed to deliberate and malignant undervaluing of experience.

A poster mentioned studies being done on this. There is also research to show that non-traditional set ups (whereby an equal division of domestic labour and childcare) report high relationship and marriage satisfaction. Additional to this, traditional set ups only reported similar happiness when one party preferred not to work at all and the other party earned enough to enable the other party not to work.

@40YearOldDad he runs his own company so I think we can make inferences from that and the fact that he wants her to make 2k a month how much he is bringing in but also the hours he does

the problem isn’t the traditional man approach or the we are a team approach - the issue is men who want everything they want their contributions to the family as main breadwinner to be sacrosanct (so can’t possibly do school runs/admin or household tasks) but want their wives to contribute financially so finances are near enough 50/50 and everything else well just isn’t their job.

what are you? Becuase it is only the 3rd approach as above that is really problematic

To you it is not in the business world it is and the MBA teaches you that. The question is how ambitious is he. There is nothing more the op can reasonably do. He needs to SWOT what he is doing and see where he can make improvements. What he's asking for is unreasonable from his partner/wife. Its relevant because it's not her it's him he needs to sort it. She needs to see that. Has he done a SWOT on his wife and whether she can work full time with young children and elderly ill parents.

Did you not read?

'I didn't say look at me, marvel at this work I have done', it's just a job that needs doing in the house, like showering our son, if I'm caught at work or out, it just falls onto the next responsible adult.

You're attempting to turn it into a pissing contest.

You can either be a genuine partnership and share things and look after each other or not.

What a lot of men expect these days is to be treated like “traditional” men, i.e. do very little if any childcare or domestic labour, dismiss their wives’ needs and expect them to fall in line, but then expect their wives to still match them in terms of work, earnings and a financial contribution. It is utter bullshit. A “traditional” man earns enough to keep his wife and his family. If he can’t, then he needs to buck his ideas up and start treating his wife like a partner instead of talking to her like shit. That’s what I mean.

So yes, in the OP’s husband’s shoes I would be ashamed that I was not earning enough to keep my wife and 4 children. Because the big man clearly feels like he can degrade and dismiss his wife for “not doing enough” when he is clearly the one who is failing.

And don’t get me started on that privilege nonsense. Utterly typical to attempt to use perfectly legitimate arguments about how privilege works to try and justify why a grown man is mistreating his wife. Disgusting behaviour.

Well you have highlighted it and added a value to the work-why is that?

Have you ever sat down to calculate the cost of your wife’s labour? Let’s add that to the conversation shall we?

I don't think the perspective is relevant when half of the picture is unknown.

We don't know if his job brings in 'so little', because don't know what their income and outgoings are. We don't know if they are living life beyond their means and he is at the ceiling of his business profit. We don't know if it's failing and his anxious. We don't know if he sits around doing nothing and could generate far more income with more effort. We literally know nothing.

I don't think it's bonkers to suggest parents as at least partial afterschool childcare. Plenty of people do this. The OP doesn't agree with it, maybe for valid reasons. Maybe he disagrees with it for valid reasons. Again – we simply don't know.

Sorry if this has already been asked as I had to skim, but my main question to him would be how you working more hours would make him less stressed? Unless the stress is solely due to not making ends meet at the moment (which I don't think you've mentioned), or he plans to leave his job as soon as you increase your hours (which sounds like it's impossible as he's the higher earner) then surely he'll still be just as stressed in his current role PLUS he'll have to take on much more housework and maybe even school runs and so on than he does just now? So by you working more, it sounds to me like that will solve nothing for him. Even if it's financial, you'd end up losing it all on childcare costs. It just sounds like his job stresses him out too much and he should look for a new one.