To think the school could have cut DS some slack here

[Sprogonthetyne]

DS is autistic, really struggles with school in general but especially when there's transitions and change, so the start of term is hard for him. He's been crying and having anxiety attacks about going back to school for the last week and is only a hairs breath away from school refusal. He went back today and had a really good morning, which took an enormous amount of effort from him.

This afternoon he got told off for using his glue stick wrongly. Not inappropriately, just spreading glue across the whole surface he was sticking (as preferd by last year's teacher) instead of a dot in each corner (preferd by this years teacher), and this completely unravelled him. He'd been trying so hard to manage the big changes and hold everything together, so the unfairness of still being in trouble despite his effort and for something minor that he didn't even know had changed pushed him over the edge and he ended up having a meltdown (which I know isn't ideal, I'm not defending his reaction).

While I know I aught to suport the school, I can't help but feel they could really have picked their battles and just left the kid to glue however he wants.

I think the problem is that the school are treating a meltdown - over which your DS likely had very little control - as deliberate rudeness, defiance, or misbehaviour. (You don't say what he did in the meltdown but I'm assuming no one was physically injured; it just disrupted the class.) I can see my DS having a meltdown over a similar correction tbh.

Personally, I'd concentrate on changing things going forward. I would have a meeting with the class teacher or SENCO first thing if you can, and explain that the meltdown was due to the stress of being in class again - the correction was just the trigger. Are there things they can put in place to stop the stress levels rising e.g. more sensory breaks, more choices in class. While correcting an autistic child under stress isn't ideal, the bigger picture is trying to stop his anxiety levels getting so high that a correction triggers this. If your DS has a 1:1, they must be aware his needs are high.

I would be very cross and I almost always side with teachers (very hard job, I do it) but taking this at face value it’s horrible. There should be support for a task like this, it’s quite a difficult concept to be honest for an autistic child. Also, it should be a uniformed approach across school, like handwriting, what’s the point in spending a year learning something and then changing the way it’s done? I would speak to the teacher and make it clear she is not to get cross about it again. I would maybe ask that the TA glues his sheets in before the lesson if she’s that particular!

Was he told off or was it simply saying no we need to use 4 dots of glue like teacher showed? If this triggered a meltdown & reflection it sounds like he was bubbling under the surface and anything could have tipped him over the edge. I am not saying the school were correct in their handling for many autistic people school is a minefield not every interaction is handled perfectly - new teachers have their own preferences and children do need to adapt as they move through school.
You are trying to trivialise it saying its only an extra 2p of glue - its more than that its 30 children having rules and expectations set plus they will have run out of glue by Christmas unless the teacher buys it

I think this is a bit different- I think an comment about the glue stick (depending on how it was said) could have been something genuinely accidental, but they should not be punishing him for the meltdown that followed.

The only exception IMO is if he was violent- if he has hurt a member of staff or another student, the school do need to deal with this in an appropriate way. They do have a duty to keep everyone safe. That said, I don't think "reflection" is appropriate for this anyway. I don't think him missing playtime tomorrow will help anyone.

The gluestick comment I would probably have let go although I appreciate it's far from ideal but punishing the subsequent meltdown is not helpful.

Have the school communicated all this to you? Why is he missing a play time for using too much glue??

sounds like a learning curve kind of day

He's 8 but due to his SEN he functions at around the level of a 6yo. The class teacher didn't manage him at all, so no reasonto ignorethe other 29 kids. The interaction was between him and his 1:1, which is funded through his EHCP and doesn't detract from the other kids (if he wasn't their, she wouldn't be either, so if anything they benefit from having another adult in the room).

The issue wasn't making a mess, it was using up to much glue. He was told to stich the worksheet in, so did it in the way he did it last year without realising that was wrong

Your poor DS
A little bit of empathy from the teacher would go a long way way
She is presumably aware of his issues

Are you getting your version from dc or teacher or 1:1?

I don't expect anyone to walk on egg shells, just to think before that start telling him off and decid if the thing he's doing is A. Intentional/within his control and B. Hurting anyone.

He wasn't using up glue maliciously or even aware that what he was doing was wrong until they started telling him off for it. I feel that a 1:1 who knows him well should have known he would be close to his last spoon, so I'm not sure why she decided telling him off for overuse of glue was worth taking that last spoon.

This

There have been problems in the past, but generally it's fine when he's fine, which is the majority of the time. He's already close to his limits because it's the start of term, so less able to tolerate things he would normally just suck up (like an unfair telling off).

What happened in the meltdown? Was he shouting, throwing things, hitting people? Or did he just burst into tears? It's not the gluing that he is being asked to think about but his reaction to being told he had done something incorrectly.

Punishing a child for a meltdown is so wrong. It's out of the child's control. There should be some understanding of how things have built up and how he has had to manage changes. His 1:1 should have recognised he was getting overwhelmed and taken him somewhere to regulate. I wouldn't be supporting this punishment, is there anything in the EHCP about how they should manage and support his emotions? EHCPs are legal documents that the school have to follow, if it's in there point it out to them. If it's not request a review to get something added.

I can’t actually quite believe some of what I’m reading on here. There is no life skill attached to glueing in a fucking worksheet! It’s just to save the staff a job (quite rightly so). If he has managed it independently before then it’s no longer a fine motor skills lesson. If I were the teacher or TA that sheet would be getting glued in for him. For this child to have an 1:1 then his need are significant. Changing the way in which something is done and has been done since year 1 or 2 is huge for someone struggling with executive function. Honestly just glue the fucking sheet in for him, if you’re a 1:1 and you can’t see that this is distressing for the 1 child you’re helping then go get another job ffs. This is all assuming that things happened exactly the way you say they did of course. I’m fussy about what books look like so therefore I stick them in myself. Likewise if I know a SEN child will struggle with writing the date, guess what? I write it in for them and only occasionally put that demand on them at a time that’s appropriate because that’s not my learning objective and I want them in class learning, not having a meltdown over some arbitrary task!

But was there a "telling off"? Was it just not instructions given that he interpreted as telling off? Maybe his 1:1 needs to be careful with her wording; instead of saying "don't do this" say next time we will "do it like this to save some glue". So instead of saying "this is wrong" focussing on what is "right" for next time.

As a mum of an autistic teen boy I do get it. And I don't agree with punishing your son for having a classic autistic meltdown. It's out if his control. He should be punished when maliciously/deliberately doing something wrong, not for screaming for help because he's on overload.

At the same token the other children shouldn't have to be regularly submitted to his meltdowns either. Maybe you should envisage special education for him if this continues because if he's having meltdowns regularly it means he's not being able to cope in mainstream and will suffer there.

OP who told you he was ‘told off’, it comes across a little like this question has been ignored (apologies if I’ve missed it). If the school have told you this then this should be the discussion point, was it reasonable to tell him off? On the first day probably not or it could he leave been done differently. If your DS is telling you he was told off by the teacher a different approach might be helpful. He may have felt told off but until you speak to them you werent present for the discussion so have no idea of context. I have had that a few times where feeling and fact have been hard to determine. Hope you get it all sorted

I don’t think you’re being at all unreasonable, OP, and there is no way in hell I would be accepting my child losing playtime in these circumstances. A) The 1:1 ought to know bloody better, she’s a 1:1 to an autistic child, and, I know next to nothing about SEN but do know that the behaviour your child displayed in the circumstances is classic, let alone the fact she’s worked with him for 3 flipping years. B) Regardless of whether she should have known better and even if you take the everyone’s fallible attitude, punishing a child for their SEN, which are clearly recognised by the fact that he has a 1:1 in the first place, is just wrong. C) denying a child with autism, who is already on the edge, a break from school work, is counterproductive. Let alone the fact that they are compounding the issue- that he’s being punished for doing something ‘wrong’. And D) there is no ‘right’ way to use a flipping glue stick, for crying out loud! Does she have nothing better to worry about?!!

I generally shy away from being ‘that’ parent but in these circumstances I absolutely wouldn’t hesitate to complain.

I think it would be reasonable to speak to the teacher.
If this was your son in my class I would really appreciate you contacting me and explaining your concerns so we could move forward with more knowledge of the student.

OP, you haven't really addressed the difference between "telling off" and giving a child an instruction or asking them to do something differently. All three can provoke a meltdown in an autistic child who is already struggling but they're not at all the same action. If his 1-1 usually works well with him then I think blaming her for the meltdown or using the phrase "told off" repeatedly (unless she has used that phrase) is probably unreasonable and unproductive.

Occasional meltdowns are going to be inevitable from what you've described of your son - there's no world where school staff are able to perfectly anticipate and accommodate what your DS needs to prevent them all the time. My focus would be on how they're handling the meltdowns and why reflection has been assigned as a response to this one. You haven't described the meltdown itself (how he behaved) or what is in his plan and how/if it was followed, so it's hard for anyone to address that here. But I think that's the important issue, not the glue.

He hardly spent a year learning how to do glueing and sticking. It’s not that catastrophic a change.

First of all, was he actually told off or just told he did it wrong?
I'm not 100% sure. He definitely interpreted it as being told off, in the 1-1's description she said she told him to do it differently but she has form for being misleading if she realises she has mishandled a situation. She often seems to talk to him in rather an abrupt voice, which can sound like being told off even when it isn't.

You say this was his 121 rather than a new teacher. What is their relationship like? Have you had any other concerns about the way she deals with him? Does she know him well?
Turbulent would probably be the word. It started off well, she definitely knows him well and he is attached to her but the relationship seemed to sour 18 months ago when he stopped being friends with another child who she also works with and seems to favour (the other child kept touching him inappropriately but the school kept downplaying it (bordering on gas lighting) because it was logistically easier to have both SEN children together. Attitudes towards him definitely shifted after I insisted they be separated)

What was his behaviour during the meltdown?
Mainly shouting, I'm not condoning the behaviour, more questioning if the lead up could have been managed in a way that avoided it.

What strategies did they try to calm him down?
Left him alone to calm down, returned 3 minutes later to she if he was ready to talk, he wasn't and shouted again so she got another member of staff (who he also shouted at when they arrived)

This reflection time, will it be for the whole break? Is it presented as a consequence/punishment?
I haven't been told duration or staff member but is definitely presented as a punishment

Does he have an ECHP? Are staff up to date with his needs and the ways to manage them?
He has an EHCP, though at times the school do not follow it, which has lead to problems in the past. The 1-1 is involved in his review meetings and aware of his needs.

A correction on a different approach to using glue sticks for next time isn’t unreasonable.

Yes, it might have been the last straw but it would seem likely that his 1:1 didn’t recognise that they were at that point.

That doesn’t seem like the actual issue. Tye issue is the follow on from his meltdown.

It seems counterproductive to re establishing the school routine. So may be worth a discussion with class teacher or SEN lead on a different approach, so that the playtime / class time routine is maintained through this period of adjustment and any reflection and work on future coping strategies takes place in time where it would fit.

I had a phone call from the 1-1, then also talked to DS when he came back, but the details come mainly from the 1-1 as DS struggles to describe things, especially things that have upset him (gets almost selectively mute), so getting details out of him is difficult

Thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions. There seem to be quite a few deeper issues there , so I think a meeting with the SENCO is definitely in order in the near future.

For this incident, I’d email whomever decided on the consequence (plus the SENCO) and explain that his behaviour was a meltdown due to his SEN(insert any factual details here like you did on this thread) , a meltdown that could have been avoided with appropriate strategies and not a choice and as such it is not something he should have a consequence for. If there is any restorative work to be done , that should be done at another point in the day and framed as such, not as a consequence.

I get wanting to support the school, but they aren’t acting fairly or in your son’s best interests in this situation. As a parent, there’s no way my kid would do “reflection time” for this, as school staff it wouldn’t even occur to me to give a consequence in this scenario.