To think the school could have cut DS some slack here

[Sprogonthetyne]

DS is autistic, really struggles with school in general but especially when there's transitions and change, so the start of term is hard for him. He's been crying and having anxiety attacks about going back to school for the last week and is only a hairs breath away from school refusal. He went back today and had a really good morning, which took an enormous amount of effort from him.

This afternoon he got told off for using his glue stick wrongly. Not inappropriately, just spreading glue across the whole surface he was sticking (as preferd by last year's teacher) instead of a dot in each corner (preferd by this years teacher), and this completely unravelled him. He'd been trying so hard to manage the big changes and hold everything together, so the unfairness of still being in trouble despite his effort and for something minor that he didn't even know had changed pushed him over the edge and he ended up having a meltdown (which I know isn't ideal, I'm not defending his reaction).

While I know I aught to suport the school, I can't help but feel they could really have picked their battles and just left the kid to glue however he wants.

Mum of an autistic child here. When you can see he is receptive to talking about it, explain that the teacher was not telling him off, emphasize that he wasn't in trouble,. Then explain how as you get older you learn to do things differently (explain reasons). Make him feel really positive about getting older. Don't take against the teacher please or he will pick up on your feelings. Remember autism is difficult to deal with as every autistic child is different. Mine is nearly 20 now and when 1st diagnosed the outlook wasn't good but he is the most amazing young man now. Good luck.

Retired secondary HoD here. If the meltdown only consisted of shouting and telling someone that they're mean/bad etc, then I'd say that stopping the child's playtime is inappropriate under the circumstances. (If things had become physical, then my opinion would be different.)

Someone suggested teaching the lad to say 'Okay' and smile. Honestly, that type of masking is not the best thing IMO. I'm saying that as someone who had 40 yrs experience of working with neurodivergent children, some of whom had been taught to do this by their parents. It just finished up looking unnatural - more of a grimace than a smile.

I spent 40 yrs masking myself, to be honest. (I was diagnosed with OCD in my 30s. It wasn't until younger members of my extended family were diagnosed with autism and/or ADHD that things finally made sense.)

I recall being told that I was 'rude' for failing to make eye contact and I've faked it for most of my life. The mask slips when I'm tired.

I've had pupils telling me off for not making eye contact. I dealt with it by apologising and explaining about being on the spectrum. If children can be understanding, then so can adults.

At one point, Scottish schools had a qualification - Standard Grade English - which required pupils to deliver a talk and to make eye contact with their audience in order to get the best grades. I confessed to my pupils that I did it by fixing my eyes on a spot just above people's heads. It worked, because it was a clear strategy that didn't add more stress.

I hope I'm making sense - this is way past my bedtime, but I didn't want to leave the thread without responding.

So all children with a disability should be homeschooled?

Because kids with a disability will often need extra support in some way - but by your reckoning, they're just being naughty when they can't regulate themselves, can't process information, can't walk, can't see or hear... they should just get on with it or stay at home.

Perhaps you can explain to your children that they don't get extra special attention because they don't need it -in the same way that they aren't given wheelchairs, or hearing aids, or a white cane... because they don't need them.

Probably because when they put too much glue on everyone's work gets stuck together. They are probably now at the age where handing in work for marking applies.

Its not unkind. Maybe not the best way to handle things. But children, autistic or not, need to accept that teachers are different, that things change, that something can be right at one moment, but wrong at another. And OPs job is to explain that to her dc.

Would definitely be taking this up with teacher. A day is a long time to most young children anyway. He will be very anxious about tomorrow and will probably be at meltdown by breakfast. Didn't realize it was his T A as your 1st post made it sound like his new teacher.

You've really not said anything worth listening to so please don't go on.

If your children do not understand why people with disabilities get extra help, and people without disabilities do not need extra help, then yes - it is your job to explain that, not the schools. It is the schools job to teach the pupils the curriculum, and ensure they meet the required standards.

you don’t listen and make zero sense
its schools job to treat all Kids the same.. my kids are fuming it don’t happen ! It’s now my job to teach my kids to not allow any naughty kids to get away with it. Last year one feral boy threw 3 tables over. He wasnt told to Leave classroom but the other 29 pupils was.😡 My son refused too leave over rough behaviour he didnt cause. teacher couldn’t make him. But They called me for a meeting ..the letter said cause my son didn’t leave classroom it “triggered” that boy to have more “meltdowns” and which caused “further disruption to learning” They literally blame shifted…you can’t make it up. I didn’t attend the bloody meeting 😡

Do you know anything about autism? Do your children? You should be able to explain difference to your children.

People throughout life get treated differently due to their needs & circumstances. For example, you have not read this thread properly, and then complained there is into missing, you have conflated this issue with that of your children, but rather than match your rudeness people will understand you are frustrated by your children's experiences and be kinder than your responses deserve.

So your kid was asked to do something for their safety, and chose to refused to do so, placing themselves and whichever teacher then had to stay and stop them been hurt by flying tables in danger, you think that's fine.

My kid spread glue over the back of a worksheet he was asked to stick in his book, without knowing this was not how they wanted it to be glued, and you think he should have been told of for this.

Interesting double standard you have going on there

I have so much sympathy for the OP and her son.

It emphasises for me how much we parents of ND kids accommodate and anticipate for them. Sadly, our experience is that even the “best” 1-to-1s don’t get it sufficiently. All these little incidents add up and now we’re home educating.

Children should be treated equitably not equally. Just as you wouldn’t expect a child who is a wheelchair user to participate in PE or go to an upstairs science lab if there was no lift you shouldn’t expect autistic children to operate without reasonable adjustments.

@Emmafuller79 Rather than getting angry about kids who need help and support. Be angry that the government haven't funded enough money so schools can get plenty of LSAs and teachers with more training in SEN. Be angry that there aren't enough SEN schools where kids can get the facilities they need (if they need more support and help which they cannot get in mainstream) and then your kids could be in mainstream where they can get more attention. Be angry that there aren't enough teachers and staff to give all the kids, including yours, lots of attention and support. Don't be angry at the fact that due to some of the reasons I mention, the schools have no option but to try and support those kids (without all the things they need), so they take up all their time, and they can't also give some of attention to your kids. Don't be angry at kids who need support and aren't at fault for your kids not getting support or attention. They can't help it and they need help and support, so that they can accommodate him.

Wonder if this is not the first time she has given him this instruction but he is not comprehending it. Maybe she started this method before the holidays and he has forgotten. Does he like gluing? Could like the flow of the glue going across the paper and is being stubborn about changing. The TA shouldn't be shouting though.

There's a huge difference between "told off" and "asked to do it differently", but I know children with autism can struggle to tell the difference.
I'm a primary school supply teacher, and I couldn't tell you how many times over the years I've told children how to more effectively use a gluestick.

Understood. The smile was a poor recommendation which I later retracted in response to the OP, suggesting 'saying OK with a serious face is fine too' Dont you think the 'okay' makes sense? I find sometimes children need a clear 'recipe' for a situation they find difficult. Being taught that an instruction needs to be actively accepted so that things can move on is useful. It 'completes the circle', the person giving the instruction knows that it was received and understood, and it draws a line under it.

The saying okay advice is fine for kids who have a better understanding of the communication that is happening, and just need a tweek, but not so much for kids like mine.

Firstly, not every instruction given is going to be "received and understood" due to his process issue, but if he's been told that "okay" is what he is expected to say, he's going to say it, wether he has any idea what they said or not, leading to them getting more frustrated when they later realised he didn't understand.

Secondly, it's not the right response in every situation, and DS wouldn't know when to apply it. For instance:

"You wrote that in pencil and it should be in green pen" - okay is a fine response

"You dropped a £2000000
Fabergé egg out of a third story window" - okay doesn't really cover it (this has obviously never happened)

DS would know that the person in both sanarios was unhappy with something he'd done. He would have no idea that one might be more significant then the other and required a different reaction.

When you speak about 'they' needing to 'get their revenge', are you pertaining to staff, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!
Plus, did your DC's 1-2-1 actually use the words 'told off'/'telling off'.
I find some of your language hyperbolic, as losing free time for 'reflection' is a consequence, rather than a more inflammatory 'punishment'.
I've got twin DC in mainstream primary, one of whom has an EHCP and risk assessment for 'challenging behaviour'; she (Twin 2) also has a 1-2-1.
Twin 2 is hypersensitive to/hyoervigilant around tone and doesn't always understand phraseological nuance.
For me, as her Mum, it can be like walking on eggshells, so fuck knows how difficult it must be for her 1-2-1 (who has worked with her for 2 years).
Fixating on glue sticks, what you perceive to be an unfair consequence and how incorrectly/inadequately the 1-2-1, and/or SENCo have managed/responded to this sounds...exhausting.
If you feel the specificity within the EHCP is lacking, this can be raised at the annual review.
In the meantime, it's the beginning of a long academic year. Is it really worth ruminating over?
You seem to 'need' to be right.
You've sent 20,000 glue sticks in; I think yoi have made your point.

Consequences for bad choices I fully suport, because they can help the child make better choices in the future. Consequences for something the child had no control over do not serve that purpose.

A meltdown is shit for every involved, it's awful for the staff managing in but it's also awful for the child, to have his brain chemistry go haywire and fill him with adrenaline, while he watches from inside his head with no control over what his body is doing, it's painfull and terrifying for DS. If he had a choices over wether a meltdown happened he would already be choosing not to, because meltdowns are awful, not because of the effect on future playtime.

I think the priority here should be preventing it happening again, which would be better for DS, the staff and for every one else. Looking at why the meltdown happened, what feelings were involved, helping DS process those feelings, thinking about signs that we can look out for next time, or if there was trigger that can be avoided in future, are things that are actually helpful to the objective of preventing a meltdown.

Treating it like bad behaviour, where you punish it and move on is not the answer, not just because the punishment is unfair, but because it does nothing the stop it happening again.

I think you need to work with your DS at home to help him develop coping strategies. You can't leave it all up to the school. It's not helping DS in the long-run.

The school is not your enemy.

We are working with him at home, constantly. That doesn't mean we can not also work collaborative with the people he spends 6h a day with.

A short conversation from her along the lines of "I know your feeling that I'm correcting you a lot, but that doesn't mean I don't see all the times you try really hard and get it right" would literally mean the world to him and go a long way to improving the relationship between them so that he isn't alway on edge about when the next telling off is coming.

Because his brain cannot hold focus or process complex instructions he gets corrected a lot, even when it's only little "[Name] your meant to be do X" or "[Name] you've done that wrong" he's aware it's to him 10x more then it's to anyone else, and it all adds up to make him feel like she doesn't like him and is looking for reasons to get at him. He can just about handle it when he understands why he is being told off, but the glue incident really got to him because to him it confirmd what the anxiety was already telling him. Its not that she shouldn't give the corrections, it's just that if she was aware of the effect that they're having she could be more carful about not feed into that narrative.

Yeah this. You should parent him properly so that he might st some point be able to cope with the real world

Obviously the OP hasn't done a thing toward this goal, because an appropriate school, EHCP, 1to1 in school, work to do over the holidays to prepare for the changes to routine in the new school year... those things all happen by magic, without any effort from a parent at all.

I think what you actually mean is, 'OP should punish her child out of being ND' - that isn't 'parenting properly' and it doesn't work.

You’ve had a lot of success parenting autism out of children? Please, tell us more!