Is being a family compatible with lack of freedom?

[bmosca]

For context: My wife (DW) and I have been married for over six years and have two young children — our son (DS) is 3, and our daughter (DD) is 6 months and currently breastfed. DW is on maternity leave and expected to return to work sometime next year. I work full-time as a software developer.

Recently, a friend invited me to play football after work.
It’s been a while since I’ve done any sport or had time for myself, so I accepted right away.
Around midday, I let DW know I’d be playing for 90 minutes after work. Her reaction caught me off guard — she was upset that I hadn’t “asked” her if it was okay for her to look after the kids during that time. I ended up cancelling the game.
Later, DW was emotional and said she feels like she spends the whole day without seeing me, and was hoping we’d go for a walk together with the kids after work. She also reminded me that maternity leave isn’t a holiday — which I do understand.
But I can’t help wondering: isn’t her day less stressful than mine?
She spends her time breastfeeding while watching TV, napping, and bonding with the children. We’re currently staying with her parents, so she doesn’t have to cook or manage household chores.
Meanwhile, I’m working full-time, attending meetings, and mentally drained by the end of the day.
After work, I still help with cooking, cleaning, bedtime routines, bathing, reading stories, calming DD when she’s unsettled, changing nappies, playing with the kids, handling paperwork, mowing the lawn, and washing the car.
The only things I don’t do are laundry and lunch prep.

I genuinely don’t mind taking care of the kids if she wants to meet a friend or take time for herself — I’ve told her that. But I’m struggling to understand why I need explicit permission to do something for myself, especially when I gave her notice well in advance.
If this is how things are, does having young kids mean I can never do anything social or recreational without it being a problem?

In my experience, public sector is busier and more stressful, and less like the image of croissant eating whilst leisurely checking emails etc, than the private sector. In general. Obviously there are stressful private sector jobs too.

I had a stressful private sector job - Ops Director 60-80 hr weeks, never got a lunch hour. It was still easier than being on Mat leave - which I found insanely stressful and depressing. I can remember the days of DH coming home from work and I’d not been able to get a shower or make something to eat all day. I hated it.

When I was working I still had time to get a shower in the mornings and put some make-up on.

I'm sure you do.
Many don't - I've worked with them.

Of course you should've asked. What if she had made plans as well? Why would you assume that if you want to go and do a sport in your free time that your wife us automatically available to do childcare. My dh and I always ask. It's not about "getting permission" it's about your responsibility to be a parent.

Oh you’re a funny one. 😂

You showed yourself up when you pretended the man does cooking and cleaning after you said the woman doesn’t have to do any as they live with parents. Extra bonus point for mentioning the outside stuff that gets done every few weeks (if that) for a couple of seasons to bolster your “argument”, and the “paperwork” was the icing on the cake.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is a bullshit argument, any man who does this then claims his wife is “emotional” (read: angry) is a dickhead of the highest proportions.

Nothing would convince me this post isn’t a total wind-up.

It’s not the 90 mins, it’s the fact you didn’t ASK her if she would mind solo parenting your two children for an additional hour and a half while you did a leisure activity.
Would she be unreasonable to say ‘I’ve arranged to see a friend for an hour and a half at the weekend, you’re going to be looking after the kids solo’ ?
Yes she would because she shouldn’t assume, she should ask - and it’s the same with you.
Would she be unreasonable to say ‘would you mind having the kids solo for 90 mins while I go and see a friend at the weekend?’
Of course not and neither would you re: the football if you’d have ASKED.
Honestly you need to have more respect for your partner and I suspect if you solo parented both kids a bit more you probably would. It’s not useful to see it as a competition, but I would guess you have the less stressful day at work, yes - speaking as someone who has worked full time with kids and also been a full time parent to kids your age, at different times.

This is unhealthy. Of course you should have 90 minutes to play football, just as she should be allowed time to do her things too, which you say you would facilitate (good). But the issue is, she doesn't want to and she wants to keep you tethered to the house too.
You need to move out of her parents' house and start living like adults.

She's right, you should have asked her if she was ok doing your share of the childcare/house duties that evening, particularly given the short notice.

This isn't about you needing "permission" to play football. It's about you having responsibilities at home during evening hours that you need to ask your partner to pick up for you if you want to miss out on them. Good partners trade off covering for each other in that way, but they also show basic respect by asking each other and not assuming. You and your wife have an equal responsibility to ensure that your DC and basic household tasks are fed and cared for each evening and on the weekend - that means neither of you gets to absent yourself without talking to the other as an equal first.

Horrible.

I fear we’ve all been played - this is clearly yet another sad little man trolling MN for fun, winding up all the silly women and watching them go. Can’t believe I fell for it.

Sorry, but if you don’t even have time to shower or make food while looking after small children then you are making your life a lot harder than it needs to be.

It really doesn’t need to be like that, and I say that as someone who had 3 under 5.

IMO you’re both being wrong in framing it as “asking permission”. You shouldn’t be asking permission for anything, but you should be checking in that it’s okay, considering how little the youngest one is. I’m free to go wherever but I always check in with DD (as she does with me) because usually we have dinner together. It’s basic courtesy towards the people you live with.

Personally, you couldn’t pay me to be stuck at home with two kids but that depends on the person. I always knew I’d never be a SAHM. Sure, work can be stressful and draining, but children are just a very different type of draining.

Also besides the point but when I read “I can’t help wondering” all I could picture was a man typing away like Carrie Bradshaw.

Actually, yes. I think having a family DOES seriously limit your freedom.

You have responsibilities to your children and your partner. That's not to say you shouldn't have free time - of course you should. But WHEN you take your free time is now a bit of a family matter.

Would I say yes to my DH playing football after work if im at home with the kids. Sure. But I'd be mightily unimpressed by the attitude of short notice and entitlement. I'd expect him to check with me and be prepared to pull out without bad feeling if I needed him home at that time.

Your description of maternity leave does not match my experiences, except perhaps my first. You can't easily nap with the baby if you have a 3 year old, and I bet she's doing all the night feeds with the baby. By the end of the day you can feel pretty desperate to just have some personal space and adult conversation. 3 year olds can be pretty tough and a 6 month old can be heavy to lug around. I think your mental image of her typical day is unrealistic and seriously underestimates how draining it can be.

Do you want your wife to feel like a woman not just a mother? Do you want her to want to spend time with you? Or would you rather sleep walk into a loss of care and intimacy in your marriage?

So when you are looking after the kids in the evening (jointly) it’s a list of chores, but when your wife does it during her day it’s “bonding”. I had a 3 year old and a 6 month old many moons ago and I can tell you it’s tough. There’s no downtime with a toddler and a baby. Presumably you go to the loo all by yourself at work, eat a sandwich without someone wanting a bite? Of course you should be able to go to football, as your wife should get free time. But you should check it’s ok.

It's not asking permission to go out. It's asking her if she's happy to continue solo childcare for an extra few hours. And most likely the tricker bedtime hours.

What if she had also decided to make plans that evening, then who's having the children?

She's not default childcare at all times- only 9-5 or when ever you agree.

In a short answer to your question, the answer is YES!! Small children and babies dramatically reduce any freedom and free time. Your wife won't be able to have the freedom to choose when to have a shower, or pop to the loo, whether she can grab a coffee, whether she can be unwell, whether she can pop out to the shops for a pint of milk because she has to get a baby and toddler in and out of the car and work around their moods and naps. She will be continually 'touched' out. She won't have the freedom to be able to chat to colleagues or anyone else uninterrupted. She won't be able to enjoy the simple freedom of just walking down the road for 5 minutes alone. If you think that you have a more stressful job, then it is clear that you have very little actual idea of what being a stay at home parent entails! It's the relentlessness of doing it all on your own everyday, then doing the same thing every evening and weekend, often whilst extremely sleep deprived. I am telling you this as someone who has both worked full time in a high pressurised job and been a sahm.
The only thing that I liken it to is if you were at work all day, had to then do the same job in the evenings, then were on call for work all night and then had to go into work all weekends. I wonder how long you would last doing the same thing over and over without a break or a change!! That's what it's like. It's just relentless!
So yes, you should ask your wife if she minds if you go out as you have no idea what sort of a day or night she has had and how close to losing it she is. That is just polite and vasic consideration. If you want to play football, then how about you arrange to go out on a weekend whilst your baby has a nap and then arrange for your wife to have some time off. Similarly, you could have come home from work, helped out with dinner, helped get the baby and child bathed, in bed and settled, then popped out to play football.
The fact that your wife was tearful should show you how exhausted she is and how desperate she is by 6pm for an extra set of hands.
Have you tried telling her that you needed to unwind by playing football because your job is more stressful and tiring etc than hers??

Would you accept being told that you need to be with the kids alone for an extra couple of hours when you might be all touched out and in desperate need of a break? Because by not agreeing it in advance she’s essentially being told what she can and can’t do

Hahahaha!! I have a (very) senior exec level career, for a very large financial services organisation. Hours are long, it’s constant pressure and stakeholders are difficult… however, im currently on maternity leave with a 3YO and a 5 month old and I can tell you WITHOUT ANY HESITATION, this is so much fucking harder. Take the children for a whole day, by yourself, 6am - 8pm and you’ll end the day with a little bit more respect for your DP.

All of this exactly.

It's not about asking permission to do something like a child, it's about being considerate, and acknowledging that your absence has a significant effect on her evening.

You should absolutely be able to go play football for 90 minutes, but it should be positioned as an idea that you'd like to do, not presented to her as a decision already made. And you definitely need to spend an entire day very soon looking after at least the 3 year old alone, so she gets a break from toddler mayhem and you get a better understanding of what her life is like.

First post nailed it.

I think it’s basic manners/common sense to check with the rest of your family before taking off to have fun in the evenings.

Gave her notice well in advance? At lunch time on the day……not exactly well in advance was it? You sound as though you want a medal for being a dad and a husband. You poor hard done by man. My heart bleeds.

I have been on maternity with a toddler and a baby. I work fulltime. Work, quite frankly,
was a piece of piss in comparison. Plus I get paid. High level professional role so not without its stresses.
Perhaps you caught her at a tired moment, who knows but you should plan some regular time for your exercise/sport etc and make sure she has the same.