Is being a family compatible with lack of freedom?

[bmosca]

For context: My wife (DW) and I have been married for over six years and have two young children — our son (DS) is 3, and our daughter (DD) is 6 months and currently breastfed. DW is on maternity leave and expected to return to work sometime next year. I work full-time as a software developer.

Recently, a friend invited me to play football after work.
It’s been a while since I’ve done any sport or had time for myself, so I accepted right away.
Around midday, I let DW know I’d be playing for 90 minutes after work. Her reaction caught me off guard — she was upset that I hadn’t “asked” her if it was okay for her to look after the kids during that time. I ended up cancelling the game.
Later, DW was emotional and said she feels like she spends the whole day without seeing me, and was hoping we’d go for a walk together with the kids after work. She also reminded me that maternity leave isn’t a holiday — which I do understand.
But I can’t help wondering: isn’t her day less stressful than mine?
She spends her time breastfeeding while watching TV, napping, and bonding with the children. We’re currently staying with her parents, so she doesn’t have to cook or manage household chores.
Meanwhile, I’m working full-time, attending meetings, and mentally drained by the end of the day.
After work, I still help with cooking, cleaning, bedtime routines, bathing, reading stories, calming DD when she’s unsettled, changing nappies, playing with the kids, handling paperwork, mowing the lawn, and washing the car.
The only things I don’t do are laundry and lunch prep.

I genuinely don’t mind taking care of the kids if she wants to meet a friend or take time for herself — I’ve told her that. But I’m struggling to understand why I need explicit permission to do something for myself, especially when I gave her notice well in advance.
If this is how things are, does having young kids mean I can never do anything social or recreational without it being a problem?

I feel like that’s incredibly short notice if I’ve read it right OP. Not telling her til noon you won’t be home til after bedtime presumably?

What if she had arranged to go to the hairdresser or see a friend etc, didn't mention it to you and you both had a clash?

Thats why when you have kids, you do need to "ask" first. One of you will need to be responsible for the children, you can't just presume the other will be.

So in that way, parenthood is a curtailment of freedom.

Meanwhile, mutually agreeing that you will play football on Mondays and she will go Scuba diving on a Wednesday for example is a healthy habit for both of you.

Lastly ITS NOT A COMPETITION ABOUT WHO HAS UT HARDEST. Sometimes it will be you, sometimes it will be your partner.

Regardless of the people on here telling you how hard her life is I think the important question is would you be OK with her going out for a couple of hours to do something for herself after you've finished work and you can have the kids

This.

Also, OP.

My now exh husband thought much like you when I was on maternity leave. He tried implementing a time and motion study! Of course, I told him to fuck off 😉

Like you, he assumed maternity leave was easy, stressfree and fun. Lots of lying around cluster feeding and watching TV...

When our daughter was nearly one, I went away for the week. I returned the day before her first birthday.

He'd had both children (1 and 8) on his own all week and they'd all had a great time. But he also admitted that he'd planned to invite a friend round one evening and didn't; had planned to put the children to bed, do the washing up, tidy up, put some laundry on and watch a film every other night. He did the laundry, tidied up and washed up etc but didn't see a single film because he fell asleep, exhausted, on the sofa before he had chance. He had even set his alarm to get up before the children so he could get an hour of housework done before they woke up, hoping they'd get out a bit earlier or he'd have chance to sit down in the evening.
Nope!

He actually had a great week with them but admitted he'd had no idea what was involved or how relentless the work was. It did slightly amuse me when he told me what his week had actually looked like, as if I'd had no idea! 🤣

And then he apologised for his previous behaviour saying it was nothing like he'd imagined and didn't actually know how I'd managed every day for 7 months of maternity leave.

He said he was relieved to go back to work as it was a lot easier but he never questioned what I'd 'done all day' again.

There's a lesson in there if you want to look for it 😉

It’s not really about needing permission.

She’s pissed off and resentful that you have just assumed she will care for the children. When you aren’t in work, the pair of you should be sharing the childcare duties. You should let each other know in advance if you won’t be able to fulfil your part in their care.

I’m a lawyer. Being home all day with my 3 month old and 2 year old is definitely more stressful than a day in the office. A day in the office would feel like a holiday right now. I appreciate that some jobs will be super stressful, but do not assume that your wife is chilling out at home. It isn’t easy to be breastfeeding and entertaining a toddler.

Was it the playing football or the telling her at lunchtime that you were out for that evening that was the problem? What if had been the following week/day?

He's already listed that he helps out when he isn't working. Are you seriously saying he can't have a couple hours a week away from work and family? (Obviously it needs to be made clear that DW will be given the same consideration too)

Before I book something for an evening/day I check in with my husband and make sure he is ok with it… it’s just being polite surely?

I think the issue is that you agreed to an activity without checking first that she was ok to look after your joint children after she had been looking after them all day by herself.

Having children does mean you have far less freedom than before as you have more responsibilities. I suspect if you had discussed it with her rather than just told her you were going out, she may not have had an issue with it.

But both parents have to check it’s okay otherwise they might end up with clashing arrangements or discover the other parent was on their last legs for whatever reason.

@bmosca Would you not be a little startled or taken aback if your wife messaged you at midday to say she was going out that night? Not she’d been invited out that night and was that alright with you? Has she ever done that? Messaged you same day to tell you she’s off out that evening?

It is still a very common presumption that the mother is default childcare. I recently witnessed a woke, young bloke ask his wife if Zac was babysitting the baby while his wife went out with Zac’s wife. How many times have your mates asked you if your wife is babysitting her and your kids when you are out with them?

Also I’ve experienced both maternity leave and full time work with babies to care for once home and work was easier for me. I could drink a hot drink, have an adult conversation without interruptions; work with minimal interruptions, have a shit without interruption - you get the picture. Yes I might be knackered when I got in but baby smiles and snuggles after a day at the office were a tonic in a away that they often are not after 10 hours of sole care of them on the back of poor sleep. I also found breastfeeding draining even though I was glad to do it. I only realised after I stopped how drained, touched out and hot and sweaty it often made me feel.

The fact he’s described it as “helping out” speaks volumes to be honest. It’s not “helping out” to look after your own children- it’s being a parent.

I’d also never take just his word for that he is “helping out”- how many useless men & women do you think genuinely believe and would say they aren’t doing their share?!

To answer your questions:

Isn’t her day less stressful than mine?

Generally, no it can'tbe said to be less stressful. It is different. If you take care of the children by yourself for the day a few times you will understand why. It isn't a competition however, but you need to appreciate that her day is also work that contributes to the family.

Does having young kids mean I can never do anything social or recreational without it being a problem?

Not at all. As some others have said, it isn't the football that is a problem. It is the fact that you only told her at midday about plans for that evening when you could and should have told her before, when it was arranged.

The lack of communication means you assume she is there to look after the kids and has no plans. What if she assumed you would be home at the normal time so had booked a haircut after you normally get home and messaged you at midday to let you know this, at the same time as you messaged about the football?

It is about communication, planning, setting expectations and showing you are a team. This shows respect. It is not about asking permission.

I don't even see a big deal about the asking permission. Me and DH have always done this for things like big purchases or longer outings without the kids. You're supposed to be a unit.

I’ll tell you something for nothing: looking after young kids day after day is LESS stressful than paid employment. And yes, she got emotional because essentially you are minimising her workload. To your wife: LTB. To you: do shared parental leave and find out what the fuck you’re talking about.

I’m struggling to understand why I need explicit permission to do something for myself, especially when I gave her notice well in advance

Because you were asking her to take care of the children while you were out for the evening. I don’t think you gave her much notice, either.

How would you feel if she just announced she was going out on a Saturday and leaving you with the kids? You have taken her for granted and behaved disrespectfully.

Thanks for explaining the acronyms. Normal, everyday life without kids, is like coding in JavaScript, life with kids is like coding in Assembler. The most basic tasks become difficult, and impossibly time consuming. It's exhausting on every level. I am a full-time dad, also a software engineer albeit part time now, my wife works at a uni. We both feel like childcare is the hardest work.

No not at all, he should have time to do other things. I suspect his wife wishes she has as much freedom as he does.

What I’m saying is, he shouldn’t just assume that she is happy to take on the evening care alone too. If he makes plans without discussing it with her, he is essentially saying to her “you will stay with the children and look after them”.

I’m sure if he said to her “darling, I’d like to do X next week, what day works best for you? Would you like to plan anything for yourself too?” It’d go down a lot better.

Is this a wind-up? Yes you should discuss things like this with your partner. Marriage and farherhood are optional. If you want to do as you like, when you like without considering a partner’s feelings - staying single is an option.

(Both of you should have freetime to do as you like but discuss with each other first.)

Really - my friend uses helping out and she's a working mum with a sahd. The DW's life can't be too full on if they're living with her parents unless they're treating her like cinderella. She's not even running a home. Yes perhaps the timing was a little short notice but she doesn't get to decide what social life he's allowed to have providing he provides the same curtesy for her

I think the thing is, she couldn't do the same, just agree to meet a friend and go, she would have to ask you to come and look after the kids to accommodate that. So it's not fair if it doesn't work the other way too. It used to drive me crackers when my husband spontaneously went out after work, when the kids were small, I was so jealous and it felt so selfish. If he told me and we made a plan to facilitate it then of course thats fine, its the assumption that the SAHM is just available any time that is horrible.

So no, you don't have no freedom, you just can have no spontaneity, thats the difference.

And no of course her life is not easier.

I work in a high-stress six figure job (usually, currently on my second mat leave) and I find it way, way easier than looking after my two kids - and I'm pretty good at that now. I can entertain the toddler by getting them to help me with chores while simultaneously keeping the baby calm. So I'm not bad at it.

It's just incredibly stressful never getting a chance to even go to the loo alone or make a cup of tea or coffee without thinking through how you keep eyes on the toddler so they don't injure a newborn.

Personally breastfeeding is also really challenging for me in that I feel utterly drained/exhausted after every feed. Like I've ran a marathon or something. I know this isn't the same for every woman, but on top of recovering from birth for me it's physically brutal (and I have a baby who sleeps well, so add sleep deprivation to that and it'd be a killer).

Me and DH both get nights off but we also both ask eachother first - because if one of us gets a night off then the other has to take on double the childcare that evening. You'd never expect someone in your team to do a double shift without even asking them first.

So... With two young kids, and she's breastfeeding too... You have the easier day definitely. And you're also asking her to take on a whole other "shift" in the evening without even checking with her. YABU

The part that is hardest is this - it’s not just 90mins for you to do a hobby. It’s 90mins at the time of day which means that after a full day of parenting 2 mini people, she then has to go on to do dinner and bedtime of both kids solo when she’s at her most exhausted. Knowing she has a full day of both again the next day and a very very small break between.

It can’t be compared vice versa - you getting home and doing dinner and bedtime just isn’t as difficult as when you’ve been caring for both those little people since 7am and will be again the next day.

Fitting in exercise is great, but while you have 2 such young kids, maybe you could do it regularly without making your wife have 2 days with only a couple of hours off childcare responsibility. Can you find something you can do at lunchtime? Or before work at home? Or after they’ve gone to bed? It sounds like just 90mins but when that 90mins is in the day makes a huuuuge difference.

What freedom does he have. Going to work?
Maternity leave can end after 12 weeks if DW wishes. Maybe she should get a full time job too and then she can have freedom too

I agree it sounds a miserable life just working and then your leisure time is not your own. That’s why I'm a single mother by choice. It's akin to prison. How come this never came up with your first child though?

A baby can be really easy. I was back at work (from home) when my last baby was 1 week old. My older child was in school, but if I had a 3 year old at home that would be completely different. That's why I'd not do that. Two little ones is really hard.

I can tell you as a woman who still works FT but had 2 maternity leaves no your job is not harder then looking after children. You get to do multiple things alone, don't have to consider multiple aspects just to walk out of the house and have adult conversation. Going back to work was a walk in the park compared to dealing with a baby.

I would say that it's not that you can't ever do these things but your supposed to work as a team. You have a quick chat about it rather then just inform her your doing x as doing so simply shows you didn't stop and think about her or your children before accepting.

Fwiw my DH did shared parental leave....3 weeks in he very much got it and would count down til I got home so he could have a 5 min downtime break and then adult conversation. Before this he would be a bit surprised if I was handing a baby over to him when he walked in the door!