Is being a family compatible with lack of freedom?

[bmosca]

For context: My wife (DW) and I have been married for over six years and have two young children — our son (DS) is 3, and our daughter (DD) is 6 months and currently breastfed. DW is on maternity leave and expected to return to work sometime next year. I work full-time as a software developer.

Recently, a friend invited me to play football after work.
It’s been a while since I’ve done any sport or had time for myself, so I accepted right away.
Around midday, I let DW know I’d be playing for 90 minutes after work. Her reaction caught me off guard — she was upset that I hadn’t “asked” her if it was okay for her to look after the kids during that time. I ended up cancelling the game.
Later, DW was emotional and said she feels like she spends the whole day without seeing me, and was hoping we’d go for a walk together with the kids after work. She also reminded me that maternity leave isn’t a holiday — which I do understand.
But I can’t help wondering: isn’t her day less stressful than mine?
She spends her time breastfeeding while watching TV, napping, and bonding with the children. We’re currently staying with her parents, so she doesn’t have to cook or manage household chores.
Meanwhile, I’m working full-time, attending meetings, and mentally drained by the end of the day.
After work, I still help with cooking, cleaning, bedtime routines, bathing, reading stories, calming DD when she’s unsettled, changing nappies, playing with the kids, handling paperwork, mowing the lawn, and washing the car.
The only things I don’t do are laundry and lunch prep.

I genuinely don’t mind taking care of the kids if she wants to meet a friend or take time for herself — I’ve told her that. But I’m struggling to understand why I need explicit permission to do something for myself, especially when I gave her notice well in advance.
If this is how things are, does having young kids mean I can never do anything social or recreational without it being a problem?

Granted we only have one DC but from almost day one DH and I have always taken a bit of time for ourselves, the cinema or a drink with a friend or going for a run. We do check with the other BEFORE arranging it though, and usually with at least 24 hours in advance and a pay-off (ie: ‘it’s your turn for bedtime tonight, but I’d like to go to the cinema tomorrow so if you don’t mind that I’ll do bedtime today so you’re not doing 2 on the run’). Children don’t necessarily kill freedom but they do kill spontaneity.

Most software developers I know are able to easily during their working day find time to go to the toilet, make themselves coffee, eat lunch, chat to colleagues and even sort out some life admin online on occasion. I think most parents looking after a 6 month old and a 3 year old at the same time find it very hard to do those things (more because of the 3 year old). In addition, she is literally making the food for your child from her own body (which tires you out) and i imagine dealing with most of the newborn wakings at night given the baby is breastfed which means disrupted sleep. Frankly, get a grip.

I work as a middle leader in a school. My job is very long hours, full on and high pressure during term time. I have just had six weeks summer holidays with my two children (3 and 1) being the default parent. I was very very pleased to go back to work today. Working is exhausting, but absolutely nowhere near as exhausting as being at the beck and call of two young humans from the second you wake up to the second you go to sleep.

You do not need permission, you need to acknowledge your wife’s responsibilities and accept that you coming home late extends her working day. She probably wouldn’t have minded if you had actually given her “notice well in advance” but a couple of hours ahead of time is not that.

The issue you need to address is:
if your wife decided to go out tonight (last minute) for 2 hours, could she just do that?
no. She would have to arrange cover because children need childcare.

why do you think it should be different for you? Outside of work hours you are a parent, who has children which require 24/7 childcare.

your behaviour suggests you have different expectations for your wife’s free time and yours. And that’s very unreasonable- I’d encourage you to reflect on why that is.

and also children all day of that age is so full on, then add on bf which takes up nearly as many hours as a FT job over a year- not to mention the constant drain of your own body’s calcium from your bones and nutrients. It’s hard, exhausting and should be respected.

that said it sounds like you both need a bit of support around free time. It can feel really suffocating when your bf and you can’t just leave for a couple of hours.

OP not been back? STUNNED I tells you.

You didn't give plenty of notice. Wife is a human cow right now with kids constantly attached and demanding time, energy & resource from her. You get to leave your desk & Sh*t in peace, eat & drink without supervisions new humans. She was expecting you home, so she can breathe and seek help with the tiny humans you both created. Time can be made, but not at 5/6hrs notice. No wonder she was upset. You were supposed to come home to tag, thats how it works being parents. Make time for football once per week, but ask her if she minds. Give her the opportunity to do something one night/afternoon a week. Talk to her about the possibility of expressing so you can feed the baby. YABU to think she sits at home all day. She grew a whole human, that takes it out of you - and takes about a year for the body to fully heal. All parents deserve down time, but pick your moments, speak to your spouse, dont just inform, communicate like a grown up. These are precious moments with kids, but it is damn hard doing it no matter how big your support network is. Give the woman some credit and empathy - and plan better.

I think I’d be eyeing up the shovel and and contemplating a new patio if DH suggested a full day with my kids was “bonding” rather than the chaotic shit show it is every single day.

That said, you absolutely can have some freedom, as can your wife, as long as you ask each other. What if your wife had plans to go out that same evening when you got home? She’s not the default parent outside of working hours and it’s not a case of giving loads of notice (which you didn’t btw!)

While I think she’s being slightly unfair at her response is there more than you’ve explained? You say you haven’t played football for a while but have you met up with friends or been to the gym etc? If you’ve done lots of those other things then yes her reaction was justified. However I love my child dearly (I currently only have one) but a day at work is much easier than parenting all day and being a parent is more than a full time job, perhaps if had looked after them for a week you would understand this.

So you are OK with assuming your partner will pick up any slack while you go off?

When kids are tiny and stuck to you, it's a kind, respectful thing to do to discuss change of routine.

Surely you can see that if one person goes out after work, the other person has an even longer day.

You are going to be eviscerated here 🤣

her day is less stressful than yours? With a 3 year old and 6m old? Come on man.

im a woman with two kids and a job in big tech and being at work in the office is freaking paradise!! I can just sit and concentrate on one thing, there is coffee food and snacks, I can go to the toilet any time I want, no running around and not trying to look after two kids at the same time and cook and clean

snd yes I was livid when my husband did the same and then argued that he doesn’t feel like his time is his own and he needs a break
sure
my time isn’t my own even at night given the BF

@Thepeopleversuswork‘s post sums it up perfectly for me.

it sounds like she has been offered a break many times (OP says he would be happy to watch the kids while she meets a friend or does whatever), but she won't do anything.

Asking is a basic courtesy extended to the person who should be your priority (your wife). Ideally you’d be in a place where it’s not really asking for permission, but just running it by the spouse to check you’ve not overlooked a diary clash or she’s not in desperate need of you at home. Ideally you’d be in a place where you can do this sort of thing because you don’t spring it on her as a done deal, and she has the ability to actually say ‘no actually, can you do it another night, I need you here to do x y z’.

You build up the family culture of freedom from a foundation of mutual support. If you can rely on each other to help each other when needed then obviously your wife will feel more capable and confident (and more rested) to then be left alone occasionally while you go out. Equally, you need to look after the kids alone a lot, so you’re confident to do so and she is confident to leave you with them and have some time to herself too. You don’t just suddenly say (with no precedent) ‘I’m not coming home til late tonight as I’m going out to footie’.

I agree with PPs that there’s a problem if neither of you ever get 90 mins to yourself. Maybe start by facilitating that for her. Lead by example yeah? 😉

If she’s on maternity leave you’re both in the trenches right now. No she doesn’t have it easier and playing who has it worse won’t help your marriage. My partner gave up his hobby when our little one was 4 months and started cluster feeding from about 4pm-9pm and I couldn’t get anything done. If you want to carve out time for you then make sure you’re giving her time too. Say to her you’re both in it and it’s tough and you know you’d benefit from that so is there a night after work where she can take a few hours for herself to go out too. Talk together about it.

I thought the same! Wife is likely not getting more than 2 hours of sleep at a time when bf-ing, having a baby attached to you most of day, responding to the irrational demands of an emotional whirlwind of a 3 year old (I have one of those - hardest boss I've ever had), probably feeling useless most days because nothing really gets accomplished and all while not in her own home. She really doesn't have it easy, or less stressful. I've always envied my husband, even his commute to work - all the time for chats with adults, quietness, tea breaks - bliss.

And OP, you have the luxury of going for a leisurely wee. You can have a chat with other adults about grown up things. You can nip to m&s for a meal deal without dragging two small humans around ( while negotiating naps and feeds).

Interesting that you are complaining about your lack of freedom while completely ignoring your wife's lack of the same.

I don’t think YABU, it’s 90 minutes and there’s no way I’d have begrudged DH that. If people actually read the OP, which some clearly haven’t, she isn’t doing all the things they’ve said she’s doing. Equally, I guess as long as she is not allowed to do anything outside of work then I suppose she can say no.

Why don't you say to your DW

You will look after the children one day a week, so that she can do something for herself
This may be sleeping, going to gym, seeing friends

In return, she looks after children, so that you can go to football once a week

You are supposed to be a team !

When you have kids, you have to check in. It doesn’t mean you have no freedom. It means that you make choices, like everyone else. Substitute wife with ‘childcare provider’ and replay that conversation- Hey I’m gonna be 90mins late, see you later.

Versus- have the DC been ok today, has it been a good day? I want to be 90mins late tonight, will that work for you?

As for who has the hardest day- did you get to use the toilet on your own while you were at your big job? Did you eat your whole lunch, or was a colleague randomly grabbing handfuls of it? Did anyone pull your hair, pinch you or spit/snot/vom on you?

Yawn Yawn!

Tell me you’ve never spent all day looking after a baby (plus a toddler!) on your own without telling me.

It’s utterly exhausting and you’re just counting down the minutes until your husband returns home to share the load/take the pressure off. Believe me a mentally draining day of meetings at work is easier (I’ve done both).

Obviously both of you should be able to go out and do things sometimes. But maybe it is still too early / she was having a particularly tough day/ she needed more than a few hours notice. Also it’s not really about asking permission so much as checking it’s ok with the other person, in that it doesn’t make things too difficult for them. This is particularly important in the baby years as they’re so full on.

So I have done both - the baby and toddler at home full time . And had a full time career as they got a bit older. Draining back to back meetings, deadlines, challenging clients, complex problems. Just like you.

I can tell you with 200% certainty, looking after 2 small people made the job feel like a holiday. I went back to work for a break.

I didn’t have the support of parents however so that will make a difference . Some days I was still sat in my nightdress at 4 pm feeding. The hardest part is the lack of sleep and not being even able to shower or go to toilet on your own. Then changing a nappy and outfit 3 times before you can even leave the house. 5-7 pm is witching hour when both kids scream relentlessly as tired and hungry and I would be so exhausted I would pray hard / shut my eyes until hb got home. There were days I thought I might go insane!

Honestly. Just ask her. Trust me. It will be better for you in the long run. You are very naieve. Keep sharing all those other tasks too . That’s important and it IS your job too. You are not ‘helping’ you are doing your 50% as is expected unless of course you want to see a resentful bitter woman divorcing you in about 10 years time.

be thoughtful be considerate- just agree it with her

It would mean she’d have to cover bedtime without you presumably? If you’re getting out of doing bedtime for one evening then you could have offered to do all of bedtime for both children another night… oh no you couldn’t because she’s BF-ing one of them. So you see: She never gets a break, not really.

Honestly OP those early years for me were dark days indeed. DH would take the kids out for a couple of hours on Saturday and Sunday and I would feel like a flicker of light of who I was briefly return only for it to be snuffed out the moment they returned. You are in the trenches frankly during that time as a mum. I would never, ever want to return to breast feeding. It made me so depressed and down. You do it because you love your baby but omg how much better did I feel about life once I stopped!

Id say you can play football but offer somehow something in return to her so she can genuinely recharge. And bear in mind maybe that’s just not possible at the moment for her so she’s asking for your solidarity. We’re in this together, or aren’t we? That’s what she’s asking.

Also it will improve. Really it will. This is the hardest time. Hang in there.

The ‘only’ things you don’t do are lunch or laundry?!

Please spend a day alone with your own children and tell me at the end that the only things your wife didn’t do were lunch & laundry 😅