Is being a family compatible with lack of freedom?

[bmosca]

For context: My wife (DW) and I have been married for over six years and have two young children — our son (DS) is 3, and our daughter (DD) is 6 months and currently breastfed. DW is on maternity leave and expected to return to work sometime next year. I work full-time as a software developer.

Recently, a friend invited me to play football after work.
It’s been a while since I’ve done any sport or had time for myself, so I accepted right away.
Around midday, I let DW know I’d be playing for 90 minutes after work. Her reaction caught me off guard — she was upset that I hadn’t “asked” her if it was okay for her to look after the kids during that time. I ended up cancelling the game.
Later, DW was emotional and said she feels like she spends the whole day without seeing me, and was hoping we’d go for a walk together with the kids after work. She also reminded me that maternity leave isn’t a holiday — which I do understand.
But I can’t help wondering: isn’t her day less stressful than mine?
She spends her time breastfeeding while watching TV, napping, and bonding with the children. We’re currently staying with her parents, so she doesn’t have to cook or manage household chores.
Meanwhile, I’m working full-time, attending meetings, and mentally drained by the end of the day.
After work, I still help with cooking, cleaning, bedtime routines, bathing, reading stories, calming DD when she’s unsettled, changing nappies, playing with the kids, handling paperwork, mowing the lawn, and washing the car.
The only things I don’t do are laundry and lunch prep.

I genuinely don’t mind taking care of the kids if she wants to meet a friend or take time for herself — I’ve told her that. But I’m struggling to understand why I need explicit permission to do something for myself, especially when I gave her notice well in advance.
If this is how things are, does having young kids mean I can never do anything social or recreational without it being a problem?

But I can’t help wondering: isn’t her day less stressful than mine?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

You have NO idea have you?

Tell you what, spend a whole day at home with them, whilst your wife goes out from 8am till 8pm, and then come back here and tell us what you think.

I think it is more accurate to say that spontaneity ends with children rather than freedom. Certainly in our house things are planned months in advance to make sure we can make things work around school/work/commitments. I can plan for anything as long as there is time to plan…

I can remember when we had our first Baby. My husband got home around 530pm, and I often still had my pyjamas on, and I would burst into tears at the relief of another adult arriving home. We then had another one when the first was 19 months old. It was easily the HARDEST work I've ever done in my life, and I've had high position jobs. Definitely wouldn't change a thing, but never underestimate the relentlessness of it. You don't get any breaks, ever. Mine are 28 and 27 now, and I still remember how hard it was.

I think spending time on hobbies/away from kids is important, but realistically it’s not always practical and does need some planning. Also I personally found maternity leave the most stressful and mental/physically draining period of my life and felt much more relaxed when I went back to work (in a highly stressful job) So given the option of full time caring for young children or full time work - I’d choose work.

I recognise this username. It's not the 1990s he wants to bring back. I'd say he wasn't for real but even if he is only trolling, a lot of men really do think this. You'd think they'd have worked out that if you have to keep telling someone how they're naturally inclined and entirely fit for only one thing, it might not actually be true, but apparently not.

Even when they do this they don’t bother with the clean up, laundry, general things that have to get done- somehow that stuff is all ‘the wife will catch up with it when she’s back on deck and I can get back to work and whining how I have it tougher, she’s just naturally better at working a washing machine.’

I have not read the full thread but..
I was just wondering how it’s come across if the mother in this scenario described her husband’s day like this:

All he does all day is go to work where he sits in a comfortable chair and listens to other people talk and sometimes has to say things or write a report and then he comes home and assists in feeding himself and bonding with his children because that’s such a lovely thing for him to enjoy doing (you know the bathing, changing etc)….

My DH thought a similar way at the beginning. I was always there. When he looked after DS, he would hand me back a tired, hungry baby. I had to actually leave the house, although all I wanted was to veg with my thoughts to myself, or he’d ask when lunch was ready or why DS was crying.

Then Covid hit and he began to get it. A couple of years later he had sole care of DS for 3 weeks while I had an extended hospital stay.

Now he gets it. He asks if he can go out, and even how we can make business trips work. And he makes sure I go out too, whether with friends or alone.

He‘s even started taking on the mental load, helping DS read, and has hosted play dates. It’s getting close to parity. But until he actually experienced what bringing up a child truly involves, he genuinely didn’t have a clue how mentally and physically draining it is.

You always get one extreme to the other on this topic.
When DC were 3 and 1 and I was a SAHM, DH lost his job and I got a part time job while he found another (he cared for kids while I was working).
I could not wait to quit and go back to being a SAHM - much more preferable to a job, and I'm not even that mumsy.
It's not unreasonable, in fact important I think, to keep up some hobbies when kids are small, though obviously you have to scale them back and be fair about it.

I have seen people post exactly that on MN in the past. Grass always seems greener.

Common courtesy to ask. Otherwise you are just assuming she will continue watching the kids on her own that evening.

She would be unlikely and possibly unreasonable to say no to occasional football but you should still ask.

I think you doing the job you have always done is much less stressful than a baby and a 3 year old. Either way it is not a competition if you are coping better support her more and vice versa. When the kids are 9 and 6 it will be a different level of supervision and less physically draining.

As a mum to a toddler (with another on the way) who is also a software developer I feel uniquely positioned to answer this one. Maternity leave was the most stressful year of my life. The days are long and lonely even if you’re seeing people. My husband used to work in the office and then go to sport training in the evening one day a week and the night before I was always filled with dread at how long I’d have to go it alone…. And I only had one! having previously worked in client facing roles I really don’t understand how someone can find being a software developer stressful. A day at work for me is sooo much easier than my day off with my toddler.

i don’t think you should need to ‘ask permission’ but you should definitely run it past them, my husband and I chat to each other to make sure the other is free to deal with the kids. We do try to make sure we have equal evenings out / hobby time. Could your wife just decide on the day that she was going out and tell you that and expect you to have the kids?
Also, last minute plans were the hardest for me to deal with, when you have a time when your ‘shift’ is ending and then it moves it’s really depressing.

Yeah, this. I let my OH know in advance, and he does the same, but neither of us “ask” permission.

I bf both of mine until almost 2, and he started playing football when the youngest was 6/7 months old, twice a week. I actually found it made him more patient etc, giving him that time away from work, home/kids/chores/repeat. I could’ve done the same but was back at work by then and didn’t want to.

I really don’t see why in a normal family set up each parent can’t go out once a week for a hobby. I think it’s so important to have some time for yourself, however you choose to spend it.

She has a 6m old who is likely still breastfeeding and definitely doesnt sleep through the night.
she can’t just tell him “I’m off to drinks with the girls next week, bye” without having a conversation with him in advance whether he can manage and most likely getting everything ready herself (and likely writing him detailed list of instructions given that he thinks staying at home with a baby and a toddler is relaxing bonding time - he doesn’t have a clue)

To be fair, he says they live with her parents and don’t have to do any of those chores, so does sound like she gets the best bits of maternity leave (looking after the baby) without having to juggle running a house. Doesn’t mean her day is less stressful, depending on the temperament of the kids, but all of our lives would be easier without that!

I don't think it's about whose day is more or less stressful than the other - I think YABU to say that your day is harder. But I think YANBU to want the occasional evening seeing friends for football or whatever, provided your wife also gets to do the odd thing with her friends too.

I think you’ve represented your wife’s day in a way that suggests she’s having a lovely relaxing time (napping and watching TV?!!). And this is entirely for your benefit so that you can present yourself as the ‘hard worker’ who needs a break.

Being at home with a baby and toddler is a very different and exhausting kind of work to being in an office. If you don’t realise this you should try it for a day and see just how relaxing / easy it actually is!

It would have annoyed me if my DH had sprung the football on me when I was expecting him home and looking forward to it. That doesn’t mean I didn’t want him to play football, I just would have really needed more advance notice than a few hours so that I could mentally prepare for a longer day with the kids.

Sounds like a nightmare for the grandparents.

Have you got plans to move into your own home or will you still be there at the end of wife's maternity leave.

On tap, cheap babysitting.

This has to be rage bait or it’s a reverse!! No way he’s this clueless…she’s sitting breastfeeding whilst watching TV and napping 😂😂😂 have the kids for a whole day on your own and see how ‘easy’ it is.

I think you both should have time out for your hobbies. One evening a week, it’s Op who goes out. Another evening a week it’s his wife that goes out while Op watches the kids.

it’s simply not healthy to not have any outside interests and connections beyond the family.

Annoys me how he’s minimising the absence tbh. If he was hiring a paid for sitter or getting a friend to babysit would he say ‘I’ll be back at 6:30’ or would that social contract require a touch more candour. It’s obviously closer to 9pm.

DH used to do this with his runs ‘oh it’s a quick 10k’. We agreed it’s better to state the time. I don’t care/understand what VO2 zone he has to stay in anymore than he cares/understands if I’m only weeding the garden not remodelling it- I just want to know how long I’m solo for.

@Nottodaythankyou123

how come you didn’t want to? You matter too!

Yanbu.

You are entitled to some time to do things for yourself as is she. Also her role shouldn't be undermined. It isn't always easy as you may seem to think even if she doesn't have housework to do at the moment.

It's a good habit to check in with partners in case things have been planned but she is BU. She could have gone for a walk any other day. It seems like you do a fair share so a couple of hours at football isn't that long to be away from them.

Sit down with her and work out where you can both have child-free time. Either together or individually with friends. It is possible even with breastfeeding.

Been there done that. Going out of the home to work is much harder. Looking after children at home is far easier.

But it's different for everyone.

DH and I check with each other before making plans - and always have. It's not 'permission' but it's courtesy. Now the children are older it's more of a logistics question as someone needs to take whoever to football and if it's not him, it's only going to be me. Neither of us would ever confirm plans without checking as what if we both did that at the same time - someone would always have to cancel (we don't have any other childcare)

So yes - I think spontaneity and parenting aren't natural bedfellows but I also think you can have a conversation with her - 'how about on Wednesdays I play football and Thursdays you go to your taekwando class' or whatever. During the day you are both doing your job, any time after 5pm you are both parenting unless you've agreed otherwise. There's no benefit to arguing over who has had it 'easier' as you'll just lose in that debate.