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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not see the appeal of Reform

421 replies

Reallyneedsaholiday · 01/09/2025 15:57

Sure, I can see the appeal of “reform” (with a lower case “r”), noone is under any illusion that the country is in a great way, at the moment, but not the appeal of the Reform political party. And I genuinely want to understand what it is that has so many people in thrall to them. All I’m hearing is “sToP tHE bOAtS”, but Reform will not do this, no matter what they are saying now. Simply returning anyone who arrives here on a boat, without following due process and considering their application, would see the country subjected to international sanctions, that we cannot afford. The only viable way to actually stop the boats, is to address why people are using them in the first place. WE have decreed that no one can apply from anywhere other than on our soil, and so have left them with little choice. France offered the opportunity to have a centre in Calais, Rwanda would have also worked, as a base where asylum seekers could apply without risking their lives on the channel. Those who are successful could be brought here safely, and anyone using unauthorised routes, could THEN be legally removed without appeal. It’s not a difficult solution, so you have to ask yourself “why” politicians turned down the opportunity. The only logical reason for this, is that they WANT the boats to continue. Again, you have to ask yourself “why”, and the reason for THAT is simply that they want the distraction, they need the scapegoat.
We’ve all seen the headlines, claiming that asylum seekers are living in the lap of luxury, with free phones etc, which is simply not true. Asylum seekers actually cost the country less than we lose through tax avoidance, every year.

But if we put immigration aside, as the distraction that it is, what appeals about Reform? I’ve asked many people and really struggle to find any Reform supporter who can even tell me what any of their policies are. Why are they so keen to sign away our human rights, leaving us to the whim of successive governments? Why are they so keen to introduce a private health care system (good luck getting any cover if your have any pre-existing medical conditions in your family)? Why are they so keen to introduce fracking? Or to scrap “net zero”? Tbh, I’m not completely sold on “net zero” myself, but overall, being more environmentally friendly strikes me as a positive move. Less pollution, less plastics, cleaner water, cheaper, safer energy etc, etc. you could scrap the title “net zero”, while keeping the important bits that would generally improve our quality of life, without throwing what we have achieved, to date, away.

I could go on, but I’d just like to ask anyone who is thinking of voting Reform, at the next opportunity, why? And how you see your own life improving IF they won a GE?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
cestlavielife · 01/09/2025 19:58

They sell a simple dream to people who really want to believe it, it is that simple.
That is all.
They are good at selling their story.

Radiatorvalves · 01/09/2025 20:05

They have no solutions. Someone asked me if I would consider voting Reform last year when we were having a state of the nation conversation. I was a bit drunk and sad I’d rather cut my arm off. That was the end of that chat!

TheNuthatch · 01/09/2025 21:01

People are fed up of the two main parties. Reform offer a none of the above option to voters.

Cluborange666 · 01/09/2025 21:30

Simple answer: our lives wouldn’t improve. They promised us all that guff with Brexit.

Whammyyammy · 01/09/2025 21:45

Tory and Labour are rubbish. Doesn't leave many alternatives?

YorkshirePuddingsGreatestFan · 01/09/2025 21:51

We had local councillors who actually live here. They took pride in the area and did a lot of good for the community sorting out problems, organising events, helping people who needed it etc. The all had an online presence so you could see what meetings they'd been to, what projects they were working on, problems they'd sorted, people they'd visited and so on. They were also frequently spotted out and about in the area doing various things.

They were voted out for Reform councillors. None of them live here and nothing has happened since they took over. There's been no community events, they've not been seen in the local area and they're not on social media. Nobody has any idea of what they've actually done since being elected.

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 01/09/2025 21:53

YorkshirePuddingsGreatestFan · 01/09/2025 21:51

We had local councillors who actually live here. They took pride in the area and did a lot of good for the community sorting out problems, organising events, helping people who needed it etc. The all had an online presence so you could see what meetings they'd been to, what projects they were working on, problems they'd sorted, people they'd visited and so on. They were also frequently spotted out and about in the area doing various things.

They were voted out for Reform councillors. None of them live here and nothing has happened since they took over. There's been no community events, they've not been seen in the local area and they're not on social media. Nobody has any idea of what they've actually done since being elected.

Same here. Two local councillors passed away during their term; they've been replaced by Reform councillors who don't live in the town, never mind the ward itself, and they've done nothing but pose for photo ops since.

Holliegee · 01/09/2025 21:55

I think politics is always a bit of a sticky point - you either know how it works or think you know how it works - for want of a better explanation and to try with no bias this is how I see it (not a very politically aware person)
we mainly have labour or conservative
whatever happens when a party is in power the other party objects too in the main.
weve had 14 years of a conservative rule in many examples they had things happen that never happened before covid/theresa/boris/liz/rishi etc …. So people voted and labour was the party, labour was slightly dishevelled because we had the Jeremy /keir thing going on - but they are here now and in order to set their stall out they have to make commitments as well as try and stop the things they don’t agree with that the previous party introduced- so everyone who claims to have voted for change, wanted/expected immediate change which simply can’t happen.
So then we had reform who, claim to be able to make all these changes and draw the agreement from many people that they will offer all sorts of things (quite impossible things and if not impossible quite unfair imo) and lots of people discontent with the current situations think it sounds refreshing and what we need - but can they honour their promises or is just like having a crazy uncle sat in an armchair watching the news saying I know what I’d do to sort out this and then lists a crazy selection of things but we just not and agree cos he’s a bit bonkers.
This is only my thoughts and for some they will come across as ignorant.

EasternStandard · 01/09/2025 22:09

It’s mostly a kicking to Labour atm

blueclip · 01/09/2025 22:13

Whammyyammy · 01/09/2025 21:45

Tory and Labour are rubbish. Doesn't leave many alternatives?

Indeed this. It really is that simple. I don’t want to vote in con or lab next time. They are utterly appalling.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 01/09/2025 22:21

blueclip · 01/09/2025 22:13

Indeed this. It really is that simple. I don’t want to vote in con or lab next time. They are utterly appalling.

I get the apathy, because I am also completely disillusioned with both the Labour and Conservative parties, however, if your yardstick is

They are utterly appalling

I'd ask you to look at what Reform are proposing, the history and personal politics of those involved, and to consider what you believe would not be equally as appalling or worse with a Reform government, because on virtually every policy area people are furious with the big two on, Reform either have no cogent answer or are proposing a course of action that would only make things an order of magnitude worse, especially for people who are suffering the most under the status quo.

There is a lot of "look what you made us do" with people justifying their intent to vote Reform, and it's staggeringly short-sighted when the gripes are usually about things like public sector services, housing provision, health, etc. Reform cares for nothing but accelerated uber-Capitalism, i.e. the things that have led to the UK being in an economic death-spiral and created the appalling conditions people are fed up of. All Reform are, is yet more of that, except on steroids.

BoredZelda · 01/09/2025 22:25

blueclip · 01/09/2025 22:13

Indeed this. It really is that simple. I don’t want to vote in con or lab next time. They are utterly appalling.

Right, so you’ll go for any alternative because you don’t like Lab/Con? I mean, Lib Dems have been sitting there for long enough but they aren’t a choice for you. Rather than going for a middle ground between the two, you want to go for Reform who are further to the right?

If it’s that simple, it seems you haven’t thought it through.

AnneOnAMoose · 01/09/2025 22:45

Will Reform be any different if they get in? - I really have no idea... But I've been on this earth long enough to watch the keys being handed back and forth between Labour & Conservative several times and they're both as bad as each other.... If Reform turn out to be more of the same - Well, so be it... But just maybe... For what it's worth, I'm not a Reform fan. But continuing to vote ConLab is, as the saying goes, like doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Easipeelerie · 01/09/2025 22:49

It’s tribal.

Theyreeatingthedogs · 01/09/2025 22:59

Snake oil has always sold well. People will believe anything.

JazzyJelly · 01/09/2025 23:09

The politician's syllogism, also known as the politician's logic or the politician's fallacy, is a logical fallacy of the form:

We must do something.
This is something.
Therefore, we must do this.

In this context:

'I want something different.
This is something different.
Therefore, I will vote for this'.

I have my doubts as to whether Reform would be any different, but they say they would be, and that's enough for some people.

Gladysknightjustwalkinmyshoes · 01/09/2025 23:37

Reform are using the asylum hotels as a vehicle when in reality they despise the anti immigrant protester as their not their kind of people IE multi millionaires but merely cannon fodder to do the dirty work.
It's an agenda the extreme right have pushed for decades.
I agree we can't have all and sundry wander into the UK but British people being pitted against eachother is not the answer.
There isn't going to be an uprising or civil war the rhetoric coming from certain sections of the media is fuelling racist attacks.

Reallyneedsaholiday · 02/09/2025 00:23

The only positive that I really see coming from Reform, is that I think a lot of people ARE realising that voting isn't limited to the 2 MAIN parties. I just hope that over the next 4 years, more people will start taking a real interest in politics and start looking for parties that actually reflect their values and frankly their interests. Losing the NHS and our human rights should not be seen a "collateral damage", in a popularity competition.

OP posts:
PropertyD · 02/09/2025 00:34

Labour are a complete disgrace. No wonder another party has come to the forefront

MissedItByThisMuch · 02/09/2025 00:37

The appeal is the same as the appeal of any fringe party. Broadly the same as Donald Trump.

People are fed up with the mainstream parties and feel their viewpoint is not being represented. They feel ignored and disregarded and shamed for their concerns. They are worried for their future and don’t see anyone addressing those worries. Someone comes along and says “I’m different to them, I care, I represent you” and they feel heard and they don’t look too closely at the detail.

The rise of these “extreme” political movements is due to a failure of the mainstream to acknowledge and address people’s concerns as valid. That leaves the field wide open for extremists of various stripes.

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/09/2025 00:41

I pay little attention to them.

They're a shambolic, bollocks talking collection of Farage following fuckwits.

Lunalara · 02/09/2025 00:43

MissedItByThisMuch · 02/09/2025 00:37

The appeal is the same as the appeal of any fringe party. Broadly the same as Donald Trump.

People are fed up with the mainstream parties and feel their viewpoint is not being represented. They feel ignored and disregarded and shamed for their concerns. They are worried for their future and don’t see anyone addressing those worries. Someone comes along and says “I’m different to them, I care, I represent you” and they feel heard and they don’t look too closely at the detail.

The rise of these “extreme” political movements is due to a failure of the mainstream to acknowledge and address people’s concerns as valid. That leaves the field wide open for extremists of various stripes.

I pretty much agree with the sentiment here. The only thing I would add is that in America there is a religious element to voting for Trump. A lot of Christians felt as though Trump represented them personally, so voted for him. What got him the win in the borderline states was probably what you said here though.

Here it is 100% the case of being disillusioned with the mainstream parties. Unless anything major changes, Reform will be the protest vote in the next election. I hope people don’t fall for Farage and his lies though. He isn’t the answer that everyone is seeking.

StiffAsAVicar · 02/09/2025 00:44

They are a party for the low IQ’s, sadly of which there are many.

CharlotteRumpling · 02/09/2025 00:45

JazzyJelly · 01/09/2025 23:09

The politician's syllogism, also known as the politician's logic or the politician's fallacy, is a logical fallacy of the form:

We must do something.
This is something.
Therefore, we must do this.

In this context:

'I want something different.
This is something different.
Therefore, I will vote for this'.

I have my doubts as to whether Reform would be any different, but they say they would be, and that's enough for some people.

I couldn't express it better.

Lunalara · 02/09/2025 00:47

StiffAsAVicar · 02/09/2025 00:44

They are a party for the low IQ’s, sadly of which there are many.

While I understand how you feel, I feel like we do need to engage with the opposite side in a more charitable way in general. Politicians like Farage argue that the left hates them, and that the left is making their concerns sound like nothing.