To not see the appeal of Reform

[Reallyneedsaholiday]

Sure, I can see the appeal of “reform” (with a lower case “r”), noone is under any illusion that the country is in a great way, at the moment, but not the appeal of the Reform political party. And I genuinely want to understand what it is that has so many people in thrall to them. All I’m hearing is “sToP tHE bOAtS”, but Reform will not do this, no matter what they are saying now. Simply returning anyone who arrives here on a boat, without following due process and considering their application, would see the country subjected to international sanctions, that we cannot afford. The only viable way to actually stop the boats, is to address why people are using them in the first place. WE have decreed that no one can apply from anywhere other than on our soil, and so have left them with little choice. France offered the opportunity to have a centre in Calais, Rwanda would have also worked, as a base where asylum seekers could apply without risking their lives on the channel. Those who are successful could be brought here safely, and anyone using unauthorised routes, could THEN be legally removed without appeal. It’s not a difficult solution, so you have to ask yourself “why” politicians turned down the opportunity. The only logical reason for this, is that they WANT the boats to continue. Again, you have to ask yourself “why”, and the reason for THAT is simply that they want the distraction, they need the scapegoat.
We’ve all seen the headlines, claiming that asylum seekers are living in the lap of luxury, with free phones etc, which is simply not true. Asylum seekers actually cost the country less than we lose through tax avoidance, every year.

But if we put immigration aside, as the distraction that it is, what appeals about Reform? I’ve asked many people and really struggle to find any Reform supporter who can even tell me what any of their policies are. Why are they so keen to sign away our human rights, leaving us to the whim of successive governments? Why are they so keen to introduce a private health care system (good luck getting any cover if your have any pre-existing medical conditions in your family)? Why are they so keen to introduce fracking? Or to scrap “net zero”? Tbh, I’m not completely sold on “net zero” myself, but overall, being more environmentally friendly strikes me as a positive move. Less pollution, less plastics, cleaner water, cheaper, safer energy etc, etc. you could scrap the title “net zero”, while keeping the important bits that would generally improve our quality of life, without throwing what we have achieved, to date, away.

I could go on, but I’d just like to ask anyone who is thinking of voting Reform, at the next opportunity, why? And how you see your own life improving IF they won a GE?

Anyone that thinks that the extreme far right isn't actively behind a lot of what's happening in England are very naive.These organisations have waited years for this opportunity.Reform are not extreme far right but the public face of respectability of the far right.

People want a change - I do understand that. But it’s just like Brexit - Reform aren’t going to be able to implement anything plus you can add complete incompetence on top.

The support for Reform does seem to have pushed the Conservatives to right and are also pushing Labour towards the right for rhetoric. That’s about all that’s interesting about them.

EU overreach was about many things, but a lot was the idea that we were being told what to do by distant and unelected bureaucrats. That's not an unfair assessment.

There was ongoing concern arising from the Lisbon Treaty about more and more powers being transferred to Brussels without consent. The eurozone crisis was hardly a huge vote of confidence for the EU and the 2004 enlargement of the EU led to significant migration to the UK which as we all know has become a lightning rod issue.

On the latter, Blair was warned about possible numbers and played it down as unlikely.

I also see over and over on MN threads the idea that leaving the ECHR is 'giving up our human rights'. We seem to have become ignorant to the concept that the UK is a sovereign nation who can write her own laws and govern her own people.

Yes, economic ties with our largest closest trading partner is of course a good thing, but with the aforementioned overreach, that became the baby that was thrown out with the bath water in Brexit.

Who are these shadowy extreme far right figures? I'm not denying that these extremists exist, but I don't see the evidence to suggest that they're huge in number or highly organised into groups. The recent immigration hotel protests were low in numbers; surely we would have seen more if that were the case?

You can't avoid them unfortunately the main stream media seen determined to undermine the government at every point. They've been under constant bombardment from day 1 despite 14 years of media and voter apathy over the decline under the tories.

Every utterance by reform is platformed by the BBC where are the lib dems who have 78 seats to reforms 4?

I'd not vote for REFORM if my life depended on it

They don't need to be huge in numbers to influence.
I'm not up to speed with the current names but they do exist.
In another post I outlined extreme far right organisations and that blood and honour had their assets seized and radio broadcast stopped.
Britain first as I said I'm not sure the names of others but they've never gone away.
Names change but the message is the same.

Yip. I’ve been saying til I’m blue in the face that “the truth” (whatever that) is irrelevant - it’s what people perceive to be the truth that matters. And that is massively influenced by unconscious/conscious bias, xenophobia, personal environment and life experiences and generally how pissed off people are in general.

@Reallyneedsaholiday wrt net zero though - although I’d love to think that “we” as in the UK/individuals living here can/will make a difference - we won’t. We are just too small to really change anything significantly yet we are bankrupting our country and making everyday life so much harder for everyone just to look good and chase a dream.

I’ve come round to this way of thinking - humans are really pretty vile and we have totally fucked our beautiful planet. It will only get worse because the big players who could make a difference will not change their methods. Poor nations will put staying alive before climate change (eg deforestation of the rain forests). It’s inevitable that we will kill the planet/probably become extinct as a species and I’m just glad I won’t be around to see it. I honestly think we just need to accept that and face the end of the world. I’m really hoping my DC won’t have DC so there’s no one left to worry about. Cheery stuff!

@HangryLikeTheHulk

I agree. The rhetoric and imagery from Reform is very similar to that of 1930s Germany and the rise of Hitler.

In both cases, targeted groups are framed as existential threats to the nation: asylum seekers are often described as a “flood” or “invasion” that will overwhelm Britain, while Jews in Nazi propaganda were depicted as parasites undermining German society.

Both employ dehumanisation, reducing people to faceless masses through images of boat crossings or, in Germany’s case, grotesque caricatures portraying Jews as vermin or snakes. They are also scapegoated for wider social and economic problems; asylum seekers blamed for straining housing, wages, and services, while Jews were cast as profiteers causing unemployment and poverty.

Security fears play a central role, with asylum seekers linked to crime (especially against females) or terrorism, and Jews accused of conspiracies and corruption.

I’ve added some photographic sources from the 1930s (marked as sensitive).

I'm just really not convinced that they're as large in number as mainstream media likes to portray. Horrible groups though either way but I don't believe they hold much sway to public opinion. As you said, their media outlets are swiftly shut down before their message can be spread. It reminds me of the moral panic in the 80s with football hooliganism.

If people don’t feel heard they will vote for a party they think will actually listen to them and not patronise them. At the moment the party appearing to hear them is Reform, although they are of course untested.

People are just fed up to the point they’re willing to take a chance on a new party. It really is that simple.

They're very good at misrepresentation, and people fall for half-truths very readily if it suits the agenda they've been told to care about.
Parties are always much less popular once they're in power. Labour aren't helping themselves by trying to look like Reform Lite, and the Conservatives are still a pretty toxic brand. Reform acolytes jeer that the 'lefty's' (sic) are scared of them. I don't think there are many mainstream lefties in British politics, but they're right about that much. I for one am bloody scared.

The "Facists" to worry about aren't the thugs protesting outside hotels - and you're right their numbers are thank fully quite small, but those perpetuating the idea that the hotels and their occupants are the root of all the country's problems. They do their work much more subtlety.

Yes this!
Its like a slow drip feed, each speech Farage makes slowly filters down to Reform supporters egged on by Far Right Yaxley-Lennon types to get the hate trending.

I honestly think a lot of this is coming from the US; Reform supports are obsessed by Trump and Musk is getting more and more involved in British politics via Twitter.

All I’m hearing is “sToP tHE bOAtS”, but Reform will not do this, no matter what they are saying now.

A lot of people feel very strongly about this topic, other parties put forward very weak proposals / do nothing. Reform claim to also feel strongly and claim they will act fast. I tend to agree with you that their policies will ultimately get bogged down in legal challenges both in the UK and internationally. The only way round that would be to withdraw from international treaties that would make us a pariah state. But people feel strongly and Reform is the only party claiming to offer solutions

Why are they so keen to introduce a private health care system (good luck getting any cover if your have any pre-existing medical conditions in your family)?

Personally I am one of the few people in the UK who genuinely thinks the NHS is not the sacred cow and that it can be modified, that does not mean taking the god awful US model but some European models do offer a good middle ground and out perform the NHS.

Why are they so keen to introduce fracking? Or to scrap “net zero”?

Maybe I am just selfish, I am happy to admit if everyone had the same approach nothing would change but the UK puts out such a small part of the global emissions that to be one of the leaders in this area at the detriment of economic growth seems insane to me. Why are we not pumping out every last barrel of oil from the north sea, other countries are using their reserves and making money off them, we are taking the moral high ground and losing money.
I value economic growth over net zero but that is a personal choice.

They don't have to be large in.
Tnumbers before the word was spread through newspaper sales, leaflets, stickers now it's social media thus reaching a wider audience
The casual football hooligan scene has long been associated with the extreme right going back to British bulldog the National Front junior paper had a league table of worst hooligans.
C18 links with Chelsea originally then spreading to other football firms.
I was on the fringe's of the extreme far right I recognise the language and rhetoric.
It's definitely still there.

Bring Boris Back!

Reform (Nigel Farage) are drip feeding a load of shite to secure votes the same way Labour (Keir Starmer) did - and look what happened. Fools will vote for them. This country is a joke. Proud to be British 😂 I don’t think so!

Add on Blood and honour ran unhindered for decades.
White power music and ideology plus magazine.
I've read copies and believe me it's full on hate.

“I value economic growth over net zero but that is a personal choice”

=

“I value my own temporary personal wealth over mass extinction and the collapse of civilisation”

Climate change is happening and it will actually be fine. Just get a fucking air conditioner.

What happens when the whole world gets an airconditioner?

“will actually be fine”

as great swathes of Earth become uninhabitable

Seems The Green Party have voted in a new leader. Looks promising and at least he has charisma!

Just had a run through of Green Party policies and really what’s not to like. Corbyn has wished him well too; that is a coalition I would be behind.

The Green Party’s policies are built around four core values: environmental sustainability, social justice, grassroots democracy, and peace. Their platform emphasises a rapid transition to a low-carbon society, a fairer economy, and a stronger commitment to human rights and international cooperation.

On the environment, the Greens push for urgent climate action to achieve net-zero emissions, typically by 2030 - 2040. They call for an end to new fossil fuel projects, alongside the rapid phase-out of existing oil, coal, and gas industries. Instead, they advocate large-scale investment in renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, tidal, and geothermal. Their vision also includes expanding public transport networks, building safer infrastructure for walking and cycling, restoring biodiversity through rewilding projects, and embedding a circular economy to reduce waste.

Economically, the Green Party promotes a shift towards a green economy that creates jobs in renewable energy, housing retrofitting, sustainable farming, and conservation. Many branches support introducing a universal basic income to provide security for all, while also backing a shorter working week without loss of pay. They propose raising taxes on the wealthiest individuals and corporations to strengthen public services, and they strongly support trade unions and workplace democracy to give workers more control over their conditions.

In health and social care, Greens defend publicly funded systems, opposing privatisation. They stress the importance of preventative care, mental health services, and stronger community and social care links. Public health measures to reduce air and water pollution are also central to their vision, recognising the environmental roots of many illnesses.

Education policies focus on ensuring free access at all levels, from early years through to university. The Greens support ending tuition fees, reducing student debt, and expanding vocational and apprenticeship opportunities. They also advocate embedding ecological and citizenship education into the curriculum, while protecting funding for arts and cultural subjects.

On housing, the Green Party calls for a large-scale programme of affordable, energy-efficient homes, with rent controls and stronger protections for tenants. They want to retrofit existing housing stock for better insulation and energy efficiency, while encouraging community-led and cooperative housing models.

Their agricultural vision centres on supporting local, organic, and sustainable farming, while moving away from intensive factory farming. They call for reduced pesticide use, protection for biodiversity, and shorter food supply chains to support small farmers. Reducing meat and dairy consumption is also encouraged to lower environmental impacts.

Democratically, the Greens champion electoral reform, especially proportional representation, to make politics more representative. They support devolving more power to local communities, protecting civil liberties, and reforming the criminal justice system to prioritise rehabilitation over punishment.

Finally, in international affairs, the Green Party takes a strong anti-war stance, opposing nuclear weapons and arms sales while promoting diplomacy and peacebuilding. They support global climate agreements, sustainable development, and human rights, alongside increased international aid focused on justice and environmental resilience.

We are a centre-right country, but got totally peed off with the Conservatives and voter apathy set in, so we ended up with Starmer who is now on his phase-2 to shaft the country.

It is no wonder Reform appeal. You only have to listen to their communications, they are talking to the silent majority, the normal Jo/Joe in the land who are fed up of initially the Conservatives but now Labour's comms of LeTs NoT StOp ThE BoAtS. Reform have taken the people with them which is something Labour are failing at badly.

However, come the election, I would not be surprised to see a Conservative win again. It will be anyone but Labour and the folks of the Shires will go Tory.

Where has Labour said “let’s not stop the boats” ?

Interesting thread.

People who are in favour of Farage / Reform tend to ignore the US based company he keeps. He's not just Trump's buddy, he's hung out with Christian nationalists whose goal is to abolish abortion, and has mentioned that a chat about reducing time limits might be a good thing. That kind of gets swept aside yet could have real impacts if they get into power.

What I've seen today that I find alarming in the current climate is Ms Cooper saying that asylum seekers could be housed in industrial warehouses, and how much she loves a good flag. I can't put my finger on why it disturbs me so much... .