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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not see the appeal of Reform

421 replies

Reallyneedsaholiday · 01/09/2025 15:57

Sure, I can see the appeal of “reform” (with a lower case “r”), noone is under any illusion that the country is in a great way, at the moment, but not the appeal of the Reform political party. And I genuinely want to understand what it is that has so many people in thrall to them. All I’m hearing is “sToP tHE bOAtS”, but Reform will not do this, no matter what they are saying now. Simply returning anyone who arrives here on a boat, without following due process and considering their application, would see the country subjected to international sanctions, that we cannot afford. The only viable way to actually stop the boats, is to address why people are using them in the first place. WE have decreed that no one can apply from anywhere other than on our soil, and so have left them with little choice. France offered the opportunity to have a centre in Calais, Rwanda would have also worked, as a base where asylum seekers could apply without risking their lives on the channel. Those who are successful could be brought here safely, and anyone using unauthorised routes, could THEN be legally removed without appeal. It’s not a difficult solution, so you have to ask yourself “why” politicians turned down the opportunity. The only logical reason for this, is that they WANT the boats to continue. Again, you have to ask yourself “why”, and the reason for THAT is simply that they want the distraction, they need the scapegoat.
We’ve all seen the headlines, claiming that asylum seekers are living in the lap of luxury, with free phones etc, which is simply not true. Asylum seekers actually cost the country less than we lose through tax avoidance, every year.

But if we put immigration aside, as the distraction that it is, what appeals about Reform? I’ve asked many people and really struggle to find any Reform supporter who can even tell me what any of their policies are. Why are they so keen to sign away our human rights, leaving us to the whim of successive governments? Why are they so keen to introduce a private health care system (good luck getting any cover if your have any pre-existing medical conditions in your family)? Why are they so keen to introduce fracking? Or to scrap “net zero”? Tbh, I’m not completely sold on “net zero” myself, but overall, being more environmentally friendly strikes me as a positive move. Less pollution, less plastics, cleaner water, cheaper, safer energy etc, etc. you could scrap the title “net zero”, while keeping the important bits that would generally improve our quality of life, without throwing what we have achieved, to date, away.

I could go on, but I’d just like to ask anyone who is thinking of voting Reform, at the next opportunity, why? And how you see your own life improving IF they won a GE?

OP posts:
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6
TeenagersAngst · 02/09/2025 12:26

HangryLikeTheHulk · 02/09/2025 10:56

Not sure why being “fed up of Con/Lab” means we need to vote for an extreme right-wing alternative.

Centre ground contains Lib Dems and The Green Party - what’s the issue there ?

I really don't think the Greens are centrist - Zack Polanski has just been voted leader and he's up for full-on wealth redistribution and giving free shit to everyone a la Jeremy Corbyn

AnneOnAMoose · 02/09/2025 12:28

RaspberryRipple2 · 02/09/2025 12:12

It’s very difficult because similar to brexit, Reform are willing to use any tactics to get voters to their side, which the main political parties don’t tend to use, ie masses of misinformation and brainwashing on social media. I won’t comment on the people who take what they read from these sources as fact as I understand it does stir things up.

I attach a great deal of scepticism to anything I read, and generally tend to be unsure what labour have done so far that’s so wrong? I can see that they are finding it very difficult to get through meaningful change but I think any party would struggle in this climate, honestly.

My general opinion is that a Reform government would be an unmitigated disaster for this country and if it does come to pass, will be something we’ll deeply regret and pay the price of for a very long time. We are extremely lucky that labour have another 4 years in which things might stabilise or it will at least become more obvious to the masses that Reform are not capable of forming a government.

"...Reform are willing to use any tactics to get voters to their side..."

What - like lowering the voting age to 16?

Oh no - that's... umm... 🤔

amanorafox · 02/09/2025 12:34

StiffAsAVicar · 02/09/2025 00:44

They are a party for the low IQ’s, sadly of which there are many.

My goodness - how superior you are.
I’ve read on this thread Reform are
Extremists
Extreme Right Wing
For those who can’t think for themselves
now it’s for those with low IQs - (use your apostrophe correctly next time), plus many more derogatory terms.
It seems to me that those of us who can’t think , don’t think, won’t think (according to the super intelligent Mumsnetters) are the dregs of society. How long before you declare we shouldn’t be ALLOWED a vote?

Gladysknightjustwalkinmyshoes · 02/09/2025 12:40

amanorafox · 02/09/2025 12:34

My goodness - how superior you are.
I’ve read on this thread Reform are
Extremists
Extreme Right Wing
For those who can’t think for themselves
now it’s for those with low IQs - (use your apostrophe correctly next time), plus many more derogatory terms.
It seems to me that those of us who can’t think , don’t think, won’t think (according to the super intelligent Mumsnetters) are the dregs of society. How long before you declare we shouldn’t be ALLOWED a vote?

Edited

Reform aren't extreme right wing but those groups still exist in days gone by it was the National Front, British movement, league of St George,BNP, C18.
Blood and Honour a name taken from a Nazi brown shirts motto had their assets frozen as they had links to funding terrorism through sales of white power music and their radio broadcasts were banned 28 radio.
The name's change of these organisations but the message is always the same.

KioraKiora · 02/09/2025 12:59

I'll probably be voting Reform - otherwise I'm pretty politically homeless. I've voted for Labour/Cons/Green at various points in the past and all have been a terrible letdown - Obviously the Greens had no chance and with their recent blatant hatred of women I'd never vote for them again.

I think some privatisation of the NHS is a good idea. The NHS is in a terrible state so some radical reform may well be what's needed. As is a government who are not afraid to state that there are only two sexes. That's two huge points in Reform's favour.

Despite the 'all reform voters are thick' line that seems to be popular here, it simply isn't true. Slinging insults is really not the way to hold a sensible debate.

AgnesX · 02/09/2025 13:00

Bulldogdays · 02/09/2025 10:55

No ,but they have 4 years to get some decent ones in place
Just as labour has 4 years so sort out this shit show ,and make a success of the their time in government.

And so do the Tories, Lib-Dems and anyone else who wants to throw their hat in the ring. And they all need to pull their collective finger out.

Batgin · 02/09/2025 13:09

Lots of people saying that if reform get in the country will end up in an awful position with the majority of people getting shafted - yet no one who voted labour listened when people were saying the same about labour getting in. That's now happened and lots of people are worse off, and why shouldn't they then vote reform who are saying that there will be change, which people want. (note I'm not saying I will vote reform)

HRTQueen · 02/09/2025 13:13

People do not want to hear what parties will not do for them, they want to hear what a party will do for them

and this is what Reform are doing, telling people what they will do for them/how they will improve the country

it all might seem basic to some but at times the most simple messages get through to voters

CharlotteRumpling · 02/09/2025 13:15

Batgin · 02/09/2025 13:09

Lots of people saying that if reform get in the country will end up in an awful position with the majority of people getting shafted - yet no one who voted labour listened when people were saying the same about labour getting in. That's now happened and lots of people are worse off, and why shouldn't they then vote reform who are saying that there will be change, which people want. (note I'm not saying I will vote reform)

Edited

Do you not think that many peoplr are worse off because we have certain endemic problems: an ageing and obese population, Brexit, 14 years of austerity, and too many young people who are NEET... These are not problems that can be fixed easily by any party. Though Reform will claim they can.

nicpic71 · 02/09/2025 13:17

AnneOnAMoose · 02/09/2025 01:21

I like the fact that they don't mince their words when it comes to many of the issues. Whether that will translate to them rolling up their sleeves and actually fixing the problems if they get in - None of us knows.

But with ConLab, you can be sure that they will waste months and millions of pounds just kicking the can down the road.... cabinet reshuffle... Some new laws (that were already covered by existing laws, but because they can't even enforce those - they create new ones to make it look like they're doing something)... another cabinet re-shuffle... Endless days out playing fancy dress with a shiny high-viz and hard hat... another cabinet re-shuffle....Maybe setup a committee for something-or-other... Ohh - Not forgetting opening new Pork markets!

In the last 30-40 years, I can't think of anything that either of the two main parties have done which has really endeared me to them.

By contrast, Reform aren't afraid to call a spade a spade.

I don't believe everything they say - Without a doubt, there's a lot of standard corporate marketing spiel which will never come to fruition - same with all of them.

Only time will tell.

If they do get in - They'll only have that one chance to prove themselves.

If they turn out to be all mouth and no trousers - that'll be the end of them.

But that could also be the carrot that spurs them into taking action and proving the doubters wrong.

The cat is well & truly among the pigeons, so I think it's going to be an interesting few years to come...

think back to 2000, I think life was really pretty good back then esp for younfg families, sure start, child trust fund, working tax credits, etc etc. Now I am sure you willa rgue that Labour caused the banking crisis but anyone with a brain knows it is not true. Might be hard for youndg parents in their 30's to appreciate as they would have been children back then but iI am in my 50's and I can tell you as new mym in 2005 and 2007, life was so much better and felt very hopeful.

Bulldogdays · 02/09/2025 13:18

KioraKiora · 02/09/2025 12:59

I'll probably be voting Reform - otherwise I'm pretty politically homeless. I've voted for Labour/Cons/Green at various points in the past and all have been a terrible letdown - Obviously the Greens had no chance and with their recent blatant hatred of women I'd never vote for them again.

I think some privatisation of the NHS is a good idea. The NHS is in a terrible state so some radical reform may well be what's needed. As is a government who are not afraid to state that there are only two sexes. That's two huge points in Reform's favour.

Despite the 'all reform voters are thick' line that seems to be popular here, it simply isn't true. Slinging insults is really not the way to hold a sensible debate.

A lot of labour politicians are taking donations from private health care companies,so we know which way they will vote if parts of the NHS were to be come private
Conservatives were going down the same path
Why people semm to think only reform are going to privatise parts of NHS is anyone's guess

MumOfManyAliases · 02/09/2025 13:21

Well regardless of Reform, I’m pretty sure Labour won’t be serving more than one term so that’s got to be a good thing.

Viviennemary · 02/09/2025 13:21

Because they're worth a try. Tories couldn't stop illegal immigration. Labour can't stop it. So give Reform a go. Nobody coming on a small boat should be eligible to seek asylum. End off. Or overstaying a visa or breaking the law in any other way.

CharlotteRumpling · 02/09/2025 13:23

When everyone on a boat is sent back, what next? Blame legal immigrants? Anyone who looks different? Single mums? Those on benefits ( though I think the system needs an overhaul). Pensioners?

LlynTegid · 02/09/2025 13:25

Menopausalsourpuss · 02/09/2025 07:26

To answer your question as most of these posters seem to just be answering why they WOULDNT vote Reform or signal their superiority to people who would it is:

  1. Immigration - they have said they would massively reduce immigration which people know is a big problem. At the moment we are importing c. 500,000 pa to do low skilled jobs (which is a net cost and puts massive strain on housing,NHS etc) while paying 5m plus people to be unemployed just because Labour won't get a grip -crazy.
  2. Small boats.
  3. Scrapping net zero - we have the most expensive energy in the world while exporting all our manufacturing to China. No country can have any growth when industrial energy costs are so high.
  4. Stopping the perceived war on eg small businesses (through high taxes, energy costs etc) and farmers. Maybe less high tax paying people would then emigrate meaning MORE govt revenue. See also the Laffer curve - if you haven't heard of it it explains that if taxes are too high people lose all incentive and tax revenue is actually lower - we are at that point now. This is just a few examples but is all in their manifesto. There are ALOT of vested interests they would also have to tackle and may not succeed. Unlike the failures in Labour who have just worked in the public sector some of Reform have run successful businesses so this also appeals to people. Hth.
Edited

I agree with the reasons you outline as to why people are supporting Reform, or say they are. Except Reform would not actually do a fraction of the solutions to these, and the consequences of their other policies would be very bad.

Barbadossunset · 02/09/2025 13:25

It seems to me that those of us who can’t think , don’t think, won’t think (according to the super intelligent Mumsnetters) are the dregs of society. How long before you declare we shouldn’t be ALLOWED a vote?

This has been mooted on mumsnet. I first saw it in a Brexit thread re having to pass a test before being allowed to vote in the referendum and there were few objections. On another thread someone suggested a test before being allowed to vote in a general election and some people agreed.

Firststop · 02/09/2025 13:25

They're doing what fascists have always done. Creating a problem to turn ordinary people against each other, and managing to persuade them that handful of rich men with huge egos are acting in their interests, which couldn't be further from the truth.

"The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe; for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them." - Turkish Proverb

Bulldogdays · 02/09/2025 13:26

CharlotteRumpling · 02/09/2025 13:23

When everyone on a boat is sent back, what next? Blame legal immigrants? Anyone who looks different? Single mums? Those on benefits ( though I think the system needs an overhaul). Pensioners?

There is not enough housing to house the whole world in the UK
At some point someone somewhere has to say ,we ,the UK can't house the whole world.
As much as we might like to
We can't take everyone who wants to come and live here

Echobelly · 02/09/2025 13:26

Trouble is, because they haven't been tried, and because the main two parties are so hopeless and disappointing a lot people see Reform as 'Something different, so it has to be worth a try'. Not recognising that it's more of the same, but even worse.

I'm all for people with non political backgrounds becoming MPs, but I think people don't realise how horrifically amateur a Reform government would be (as we've seen with Reform local councils), nor how particularly open to corruption and grifting they will be. They will have to scrape the barrel for candidates and those people simply won't have a clue what to do a an MP other than posting angry tweets, nor will they know what is ethical conduct.

Shame on the media for treating them like a serious political force. Shame on the established parties for being so hopeless that Reform look like contenders!

Avantiagain · 02/09/2025 13:28

"Nigel Farage presents himself as the working man's friend and offers simple solutions to complex problems. He's also an eloquent speaker who promises the land of milk and honey."

Yes this sums it up.

TeenagersAngst · 02/09/2025 13:41

nicpic71 · 02/09/2025 13:17

think back to 2000, I think life was really pretty good back then esp for younfg families, sure start, child trust fund, working tax credits, etc etc. Now I am sure you willa rgue that Labour caused the banking crisis but anyone with a brain knows it is not true. Might be hard for youndg parents in their 30's to appreciate as they would have been children back then but iI am in my 50's and I can tell you as new mym in 2005 and 2007, life was so much better and felt very hopeful.

Labour didn't cause the banking crisis but we were guilty of being naive about how economies work. Anyone remember Gordon Brown's claims that 'he'd put an end to boom and bust'?

Blair was voted into office during a window of immense global economic prosperity. It was relatively simple for him to increase the lot of many working families, there was money sloshing around the system.

But he also left a terrible legacy with things like working tax credits and allowing immigration to rise as it did from the EU providing endless cheap labour. Businesses have become greedy for both and it's a very difficult thing to turn around.

CharlotteRumpling · 02/09/2025 13:46

Bulldogdays · 02/09/2025 13:26

There is not enough housing to house the whole world in the UK
At some point someone somewhere has to say ,we ,the UK can't house the whole world.
As much as we might like to
We can't take everyone who wants to come and live here

I am not advocating for that at all I just think it is quite tough to turn an elephant ie an economy dependant on cheap labour. Hence why every party struggles.

Bulldogdays · 02/09/2025 13:47

Neither labour or conservative can cover themselves in glory with many issues, people looking for something different,have latched on to reform

BurntBroccoli · 02/09/2025 13:51

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 01/09/2025 22:21

I get the apathy, because I am also completely disillusioned with both the Labour and Conservative parties, however, if your yardstick is

They are utterly appalling

I'd ask you to look at what Reform are proposing, the history and personal politics of those involved, and to consider what you believe would not be equally as appalling or worse with a Reform government, because on virtually every policy area people are furious with the big two on, Reform either have no cogent answer or are proposing a course of action that would only make things an order of magnitude worse, especially for people who are suffering the most under the status quo.

There is a lot of "look what you made us do" with people justifying their intent to vote Reform, and it's staggeringly short-sighted when the gripes are usually about things like public sector services, housing provision, health, etc. Reform cares for nothing but accelerated uber-Capitalism, i.e. the things that have led to the UK being in an economic death-spiral and created the appalling conditions people are fed up of. All Reform are, is yet more of that, except on steroids.

Edited

I said this yesterday to my daughter who says she is never voting Labour again after the disability cuts. After some discussion, I suggested that if she (and others) didn’t vote for Labour, Reform would most certainly get in and did she want that? Hopefully the penny dropped.
I then pointed her towards decent local Labour MPs who are extremely hard working and do a lot for their constituents.

TeenagersAngst · 02/09/2025 13:51

Reform are talking about much more than immigration but most on Mumsnet either don't know or don't care. They just assume Reform are a one-trick pony and enjoy slagging them off for that.

Yesterday, Richard Tice announced plans to review council pension plans which are underperforming and costing a fortune in management fees due to councils not negotiating astutely enough. He reckons many millions could be saved by reviewing the current set up - and this could come off people's council tax bills.

I can well believe that the average council bod who just turns up and does a day's work, doesn't really care that much about getting best value for money. I've worked in local government and the incompetence and money wastage is eye watering. My friend was a councillor for many years and tried to get a speed bump installed on behalf of a group of constituents and it cost £150,000 because of red tape and procurement rules - for one speed bump.

Council pensions aren't sexy and many people don't understand pensions so don't engage with any media reporting on the subject. But ideas like this are new and refreshing so I'm pleased they are turning their attention to inefficiencies in public spending and looking for solutions rather than the endless rounds of tax rises from Labour.