To not see the appeal of Reform

[Reallyneedsaholiday]

Sure, I can see the appeal of “reform” (with a lower case “r”), noone is under any illusion that the country is in a great way, at the moment, but not the appeal of the Reform political party. And I genuinely want to understand what it is that has so many people in thrall to them. All I’m hearing is “sToP tHE bOAtS”, but Reform will not do this, no matter what they are saying now. Simply returning anyone who arrives here on a boat, without following due process and considering their application, would see the country subjected to international sanctions, that we cannot afford. The only viable way to actually stop the boats, is to address why people are using them in the first place. WE have decreed that no one can apply from anywhere other than on our soil, and so have left them with little choice. France offered the opportunity to have a centre in Calais, Rwanda would have also worked, as a base where asylum seekers could apply without risking their lives on the channel. Those who are successful could be brought here safely, and anyone using unauthorised routes, could THEN be legally removed without appeal. It’s not a difficult solution, so you have to ask yourself “why” politicians turned down the opportunity. The only logical reason for this, is that they WANT the boats to continue. Again, you have to ask yourself “why”, and the reason for THAT is simply that they want the distraction, they need the scapegoat.
We’ve all seen the headlines, claiming that asylum seekers are living in the lap of luxury, with free phones etc, which is simply not true. Asylum seekers actually cost the country less than we lose through tax avoidance, every year.

But if we put immigration aside, as the distraction that it is, what appeals about Reform? I’ve asked many people and really struggle to find any Reform supporter who can even tell me what any of their policies are. Why are they so keen to sign away our human rights, leaving us to the whim of successive governments? Why are they so keen to introduce a private health care system (good luck getting any cover if your have any pre-existing medical conditions in your family)? Why are they so keen to introduce fracking? Or to scrap “net zero”? Tbh, I’m not completely sold on “net zero” myself, but overall, being more environmentally friendly strikes me as a positive move. Less pollution, less plastics, cleaner water, cheaper, safer energy etc, etc. you could scrap the title “net zero”, while keeping the important bits that would generally improve our quality of life, without throwing what we have achieved, to date, away.

I could go on, but I’d just like to ask anyone who is thinking of voting Reform, at the next opportunity, why? And how you see your own life improving IF they won a GE?

Labour didn't cut the benefits though,at the last minute they stayed the same
Conservatives and reform definitely would
There are 4 years for labour to turn this round so they get elected again
The best thing they can do is dump their leader

As much as it pains me to say it ,I do think labour is the best of the current offerings .. conservatives had 14 years ,labour has only had one so far
We do need to give them a chance,and with a different leader it might be a different story

"...Shame on the established parties for being so hopeless that Reform look like contenders..."

And this line here pretty much nullifies the rest of your post.

What I like about them is absolutely nothing. They are simply promoting hate and division - a divide and conquer method of disruption so they can step in and sell off everything, and diminish our human and working rights.

@TeenagersAngst You have to bear in mind that the average voter doesn’t dig deep into politics as they have full time jobs and other commitments. I am sure that there is more to Reform than immigration, but their goal to reduce immigration is what is appealing to a big chunk of Reform voters. There are mixed motivations as to why Reform voters want that, but the main one is that they feel as though the country isn’t able to support everyone plus more immigrants.

I completely blame Farage for Brexit. He was the mastermind of the whole thing.
Why?
Nigel Farage was a founding member of the UK Independence Party (UKIP) in the 1990s. The party’s central mission was clear: to take Britain out of the European Union. Although he never managed to secure a seat in the UK Parliament, Farage served as a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) from 1999 to 2020, where he used his position to relentlessly criticize the EU from within.

One of Farage’s key contributions to Brexit was mainstreaming Euroscepticism. He helped bring anti-EU sentiment into the heart of British political discourse, consistently framing the European Union as undemocratic, unaccountable, and a threat to British sovereignty. Immigration became a central theme in his rhetoric, and his slogan, “We want our country back!”, became a rallying cry for those who felt disillusioned with the EU.

Farage also exerted significant electoral pressure on the Conservative Party. Under his leadership, UKIP rose sharply in popularity, particularly after 2010. In the 2014 European Parliament elections, UKIP won the most UK seats, overtaking both Labour and the Conservatives. This surge forced then-Prime Minister David Cameron to promise an EU referendum in the 2015 Conservative manifesto, a pledge widely viewed as a direct response to UKIP’s growing influence.

In the 2016 Brexit referendum, Farage played a prominent role, though not as part of the official “Vote Leave” campaign, which was spearheaded by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. Instead, he led the more populist and immigration-focused “Leave.EU” campaign. Farage frequently appeared on television, radio, and social media, often using provocative messages that drew both attention and criticism. One of the most controversial moments came when he unveiled the infamous “Breaking Point” poster, which depicted migrants queuing at the EU border. The poster was condemned as xenophobic, even by figures within the official Vote Leave campaign.

After the referendum, Farage declared Brexit a victory for “the people” and briefly resigned as UKIP leader. However, he soon returned to political life, founding the Brexit Party (later renamed Reform UK). His goal was to pressure the government into delivering what he called a “real Brexit,” opposing any compromises such as remaining in the Single Market. In this way, Farage remained an influential force in shaping Britain’s post-referendum political landscape.

Interesting you make no critique of the EU and how intransigent they were when David Cameron went to them to negotiate ahead of the referendum.

Well sure, the country which had all the special opt-outs comes crawling for yet more special treatment - of course the others would be intransigent.

Yes I agree and yes I did mention that they backed down on the disability cuts because of the opposition within the Labour Party by decent Labour MPs.

They need to stop trying to woo Reform and ex Tories who will never vote for them anyway.

You may be right. They are responding to high Reform polling and may never get those voters back anyway. Even with all the immigration stuff.

Gosh, Reform are now fascists.
Just listen to yourselves.

Do some reading on Germany in the 1930s. The parallels are terrifying.

They hate it when someone offers to solve an obvious problem. They’d rather just wring their hands and say you have to accept further dysfunction.

The special opt-outs describe perfectly the foundation for Eurosceptism. Nigel Farage didn't invent that. The UK was always less enthusiastic about full unity with Europe than the mainland European countries.

The EU (Germany and France) could have negotiated with Cameron when he went to them with proposals but held firm and gave him little to take home to those in the UK who were growing increasingly tired of overreach from Brussels. But they chose not to. The idea that Brexit was all caused by Farage and hordes of 'gammons' is so out of touch with reality.

no, not really.

They are not at all.

I’ve read their manifesto. It’s full of empty promises that they couldn’t actually fulfil to appeal to the masses.
The recent announcement about stopping all small boats / sending people to Iran etc was totally pie in the sky and wouid cost billions upon billions.
Tice is saying things about pensions that he knows lots of people will want to hear. I’ve heard utter rubbish from friends who seem to think my NHS is gold plated and that I’ll be retiring at 55 on thousands. I won’t. I think Tice will find that his “plan” would come across quite a few legal hurdles. He’s full of hot air and bluster, just as Farage is.

But they won't be able to step in, if they don't get enough votes.

And, as displayed here alone - The number of far superior, "holier than thou" brigade far outweigh us thick, racist, knuckle-draggers.

So what's everybody worrying for? - Based on many of the comments here - they don't stand a chance anyway.

Or do they...?

We're the other way here. Previous councillors only showed up around polling time and ignored us all the rest of the time.

Now got Reform ones and it's like a breath of fresh air, events, weekly promotions of local businesses, actually doing what they say they will , positive about the area and turn up and listen to what people say. On the face of it they're smashing it out of the park locally.

I won't vote reform, they're too dangerous and we can't afford for the nhs to be taken away. But as a lifelong Labour voter, I'm done - is anyone actually happy with them? It seems they're too left for some and too right for others, so seem to appeal to absolutely No one. I'm old school Labour, where they were the party for the working classes but that's gone and along with it, the majority of their voter base. There's a huge gap in the political sphere for such a party - who want to to tackle immigration, invest in education so we don't have to rely on people from abroad, address inequality at grass roots kevel. Corbyns new party is all about throwing open the borders, the greens are much the same with an emphasis on climate issues, reform may tackle immigration but will shaft the working classes in the process, lib dems have the m/c liberal elite stance who again want more immigration as they're not living in diverse communities , so who does that leave? Bloody Tories and that's unfortunately, who I may have to turn too. At least you know what your going to get I suppose.

Curiously I thought the same about the “anti fascist” protesters.

The Great Unwashed looked like they’d struggle to find a hairbrush, never mind gainful employment.

The main people tired of Brussels' "overreach" were very rich and resented having to pay tax, their products having to meet minimum standards, and their employees having rights.

Brexit was never intended to solve any problems for the ordinary folk but of course it was sold to them like it would.
Just like they're now being sold the idea that stopping the boats will solve the country's problems, though it's important not to look at the other things reform will most likely do if they get into power.

Sometimes the simplest answer isn't that simple, and that can be hard to recognise when you're just going about your life and have no massive interest in politics and economics.

Yes, Yes, Yes!

Theme: National identity:

• Reform UK: “Take back control”, defend sovereignty, revive British pride
• NSDAP: Extreme nationalism, undo Versailles, restore German prestige

Theme: Immigration & exclusion:

• Reform UK: Calls for sharp immigration cuts, deportations, “British first” policies
• NSDAP: Racialised exclusion, anti-immigrant laws, escalating to persecution and genocide

Theme: Populist stance:

• Reform UK: Claims to represent “ordinary people” against elites, civil service, “woke” establishment
• NSDAP: Claimed to represent the Volk against Weimar elites, Jews, communists, “decadent” culture

Theme: Distrust of institutions:

• Reform UK: Attacks on civil service, courts, media, Parliament as corrupt or obstructive
• NSDAP: Denounced Weimar parliament, judiciary, press as betrayers of the nation

Theme: Simplistic economics:

• Reform UK: Pledges of tax cuts, deregulation, “common-sense” fixes
• NSDAP: “Work and bread” slogans, public works, scapegoating minorities for hardship

Theme: Scapegoating:

• Reform UK: Immigration, net-zero policies, “woke culture” blamed for decline
• NSDAP: Jews, communists, and minorities blamed for all crises

Theme: Strong leader focus:

• Reform UK: Heavy reliance on Nigel Farage’s persona as a truth-telling outsider
• NSDAP: Cult of personality around Hitler as national saviour

Theme: Electoral strategy:

• Reform UK: Wedge issues (Brexit legacy, immigration, net zero) to mobilise discontent
• NSDAP: Exploited Versailles, depression, humiliation to mobilise anger

Theme: Relationship with press:

• Reform UK: Combative stance toward mainstream press, claiming bias and suppression; sympathetic coverage in certain tabloids
• NSDAP: Open hostility to press, branding it “lying press” (Lügenpresse), censorship, takeover of media once in power

Theme: Business & financial elites:

• Reform UK: Pro–business, deregulatory stance; appeals to entrepreneurs and small business owners, sceptical of “green” regulation
• NSDAP: Initially anti-capitalist rhetoric, but later alliances with industrialists and financiers who saw them as a bulwark against socialism/communism

He's making perfectly rational statements about pension funds being mismanaged in the public sector. Having worked in local government, I can easily believe it.