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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not see the appeal of Reform

421 replies

Reallyneedsaholiday · 01/09/2025 15:57

Sure, I can see the appeal of “reform” (with a lower case “r”), noone is under any illusion that the country is in a great way, at the moment, but not the appeal of the Reform political party. And I genuinely want to understand what it is that has so many people in thrall to them. All I’m hearing is “sToP tHE bOAtS”, but Reform will not do this, no matter what they are saying now. Simply returning anyone who arrives here on a boat, without following due process and considering their application, would see the country subjected to international sanctions, that we cannot afford. The only viable way to actually stop the boats, is to address why people are using them in the first place. WE have decreed that no one can apply from anywhere other than on our soil, and so have left them with little choice. France offered the opportunity to have a centre in Calais, Rwanda would have also worked, as a base where asylum seekers could apply without risking their lives on the channel. Those who are successful could be brought here safely, and anyone using unauthorised routes, could THEN be legally removed without appeal. It’s not a difficult solution, so you have to ask yourself “why” politicians turned down the opportunity. The only logical reason for this, is that they WANT the boats to continue. Again, you have to ask yourself “why”, and the reason for THAT is simply that they want the distraction, they need the scapegoat.
We’ve all seen the headlines, claiming that asylum seekers are living in the lap of luxury, with free phones etc, which is simply not true. Asylum seekers actually cost the country less than we lose through tax avoidance, every year.

But if we put immigration aside, as the distraction that it is, what appeals about Reform? I’ve asked many people and really struggle to find any Reform supporter who can even tell me what any of their policies are. Why are they so keen to sign away our human rights, leaving us to the whim of successive governments? Why are they so keen to introduce a private health care system (good luck getting any cover if your have any pre-existing medical conditions in your family)? Why are they so keen to introduce fracking? Or to scrap “net zero”? Tbh, I’m not completely sold on “net zero” myself, but overall, being more environmentally friendly strikes me as a positive move. Less pollution, less plastics, cleaner water, cheaper, safer energy etc, etc. you could scrap the title “net zero”, while keeping the important bits that would generally improve our quality of life, without throwing what we have achieved, to date, away.

I could go on, but I’d just like to ask anyone who is thinking of voting Reform, at the next opportunity, why? And how you see your own life improving IF they won a GE?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Barbadossunset · 10/09/2025 09:00

Interesting that you choose to comment on such a minor point and completely ignore the main issue of concern here.

Yes, a bit like posters who scan threads to point out it’s ‘Keir’ not ‘Kier’.

doubleshotcappuccino · 10/09/2025 09:04

Barbadossunset · 10/09/2025 09:00

Interesting that you choose to comment on such a minor point and completely ignore the main issue of concern here.

Yes, a bit like posters who scan threads to point out it’s ‘Keir’ not ‘Kier’.

Don’t let the main issues at stake bother you: those that have been riled up are exactly the same group to be most impacted by Reform’s plans for the NHS. It will not be funded in the same way as now - migrants are not stealing their jobs Reform will be stealing their children’s right to free at the point of delivery health. There, have a little pick at that instead.

Alexandra2001 · 10/09/2025 09:27

"Free at the point of use" covers a multitude of charges and extra costs.

Take away the tax payer funded model & its either its a 2 tier system or those paying insurance, subsidise those who cannot pay.

Bumblebee72 · 10/09/2025 10:05

Bulldogdays · 10/09/2025 02:11

You would think wouldn't you ..
But it's racist to not want to house the whole world ...well if you live in UK it is .

To many it seems you're racist if you don't sleep on your couch so that an asylum seeker can sleep in your bed.

AnneOnAMoose · 10/09/2025 13:03

doubleshotcappuccino · 10/09/2025 07:15

Yet to see one articulate post in support of Reform which is based on any real fact. I will meet immigrants today, every one of them skilled, every one of them working. I wish I could say the same for those who blame them for being here. The flag idiocy will blow over, but what is really alarming is to have an insight on a group of people do nothing to help themselves but have only energy to hate. What must it be like to be a child in that house. One positive action that has come about as a result of all of this is I realise I’ve got to do something to protect the most vunerable in my community. So thank you reform - you’ve made me realise I don’t want to be like you …off to work now- enjoy your day painting roundabouts .

"...Yet to see one articulate post in support of Reform..."

None so blind as those who will not see.

And as for the rest of your post - That was funny as fuck! Best laugh I've had all week.

Bumblebee72 · 10/09/2025 13:54

Alexandra2001 · 10/09/2025 09:27

"Free at the point of use" covers a multitude of charges and extra costs.

Take away the tax payer funded model & its either its a 2 tier system or those paying insurance, subsidise those who cannot pay.

We already have a two tier system. Those with private healthcare and those use the NHS, on the whole those with private healthcare will be paying more than than those that don't. The NHS it is hugely bloated and inefficient.

Alexandra2001 · 10/09/2025 14:00

Bumblebee72 · 10/09/2025 13:54

We already have a two tier system. Those with private healthcare and those use the NHS, on the whole those with private healthcare will be paying more than than those that don't. The NHS it is hugely bloated and inefficient.

You say that but in international comparisons, it scores very highly for efficiency.

Scores badly on outcomes because its underfunded compared to other countries, which have huge admin costs for all those ins claims.

Have you evidence for your claim the NHS is bloated etc....

Bumblebee72 · 10/09/2025 14:04

Alexandra2001 · 10/09/2025 14:00

You say that but in international comparisons, it scores very highly for efficiency.

Scores badly on outcomes because its underfunded compared to other countries, which have huge admin costs for all those ins claims.

Have you evidence for your claim the NHS is bloated etc....

Edited

Yes I do.

Alexandra2001 · 10/09/2025 17:09

Bumblebee72 · 10/09/2025 14:04

Yes I do.

Yes of course you do.....

MumOfManyAliases · 10/09/2025 17:11

AnneOnAMoose · 10/09/2025 13:03

"...Yet to see one articulate post in support of Reform..."

None so blind as those who will not see.

And as for the rest of your post - That was funny as fuck! Best laugh I've had all week.

I’d like the naysayers to give me a reason why I should vote Labour the next election. I mean, looking back at the last year for example: Have they ‘smashed the gangs’ and regained control of our borders? Have they kept to their election promises e.g. not to increase taxes on working people? Have they helped people with the cost of living? (Eg any reduction in people relying on food banks?), have they managed to implement any welfare reforms? Have energy bills fallen?

I certainly don’t feel any better off since they came into Government - In fact, I feel a lot worse off, so will vote accordingly in order to get them out next time.

Reallyneedsaholiday · 10/09/2025 17:25

MumOfManyAliases · 10/09/2025 17:11

I’d like the naysayers to give me a reason why I should vote Labour the next election. I mean, looking back at the last year for example: Have they ‘smashed the gangs’ and regained control of our borders? Have they kept to their election promises e.g. not to increase taxes on working people? Have they helped people with the cost of living? (Eg any reduction in people relying on food banks?), have they managed to implement any welfare reforms? Have energy bills fallen?

I certainly don’t feel any better off since they came into Government - In fact, I feel a lot worse off, so will vote accordingly in order to get them out next time.

They've had one year to achieve all those things. The Tories were still blaming the last Labour government after 14 years. Things take time, politicians do not a magic wand. The next GE is not due for 4 years, but you have already made your mind up, who you will vote for? IF Reform was to win, would you be as inpatient and unforgiving if they can't fix everything within a year?

OP posts:
OonaStubbs · 10/09/2025 17:34

Reform are going to win the next general election unless something very drastic happens between now and then.

We had a discussion at work the other day and everyone agreed that flying the flags isn't racist, illegal immigration needs to be stopped, and that Keir Starmer is an idiot. This is an office in a fairly safe Labour seat in the "red wall". Reform was not mentioned but everyone was talking about the points they campaign on.

Hoardasauruskaren · 10/09/2025 17:37

Alexandra2001 · 10/09/2025 14:00

You say that but in international comparisons, it scores very highly for efficiency.

Scores badly on outcomes because its underfunded compared to other countries, which have huge admin costs for all those ins claims.

Have you evidence for your claim the NHS is bloated etc....

Edited

The very nature of healthcare makes efficiency difficult. I work in A&E. Demand can be very variable making it difficult to get ideal staffing levels to staff it adequately at all times. Generally diagnosis can be difficult so several tests may be required, different medications/treatments tried etc. Also you are dealing with the unpredictable nature of humans all the time.
A system based on profit will cut corners to be more efficient to the detriment of patient care. The NHS is underfunded for alit is expected to provide, has been for years.

AnneOnAMoose · 10/09/2025 17:40

Reallyneedsaholiday · 10/09/2025 17:25

They've had one year to achieve all those things. The Tories were still blaming the last Labour government after 14 years. Things take time, politicians do not a magic wand. The next GE is not due for 4 years, but you have already made your mind up, who you will vote for? IF Reform was to win, would you be as inpatient and unforgiving if they can't fix everything within a year?

I can't speak for others, but my view isn't just based on the last year - I'm old enough to remember Labour's last time in office and they were a shower of shit then as well!

And yes, they might only have been in for a year so far this term, but in that year - there's been absolutely nothing that shows any sign of improvement.

It's been like a broken car - the starter motor is turning, but the engine is dead.

They've already had to replace one broken part of that engine before it's even done anything - What did Angela Rayner achieve in her first year, besides lining her own pockets?

Now we have an ambassador with questionable connections - so I suspect that component will be replaced soon.

If I had a new car with all these parts breaking - I'd be returning it under warranty as "Not fit for purpose".

Hoardasauruskaren · 10/09/2025 17:43

MumOfManyAliases · 10/09/2025 17:11

I’d like the naysayers to give me a reason why I should vote Labour the next election. I mean, looking back at the last year for example: Have they ‘smashed the gangs’ and regained control of our borders? Have they kept to their election promises e.g. not to increase taxes on working people? Have they helped people with the cost of living? (Eg any reduction in people relying on food banks?), have they managed to implement any welfare reforms? Have energy bills fallen?

I certainly don’t feel any better off since they came into Government - In fact, I feel a lot worse off, so will vote accordingly in order to get them out next time.

Labour have had 14 months in power to undo 14 years of austerity. Also the covid pandemic & Brexit that have caused a lot of the issues faced today. Do you really think Reform will solve the COL crisis, reduce immigration & sort the NHS out in less time?

TooBigForMyBoots · 10/09/2025 17:56

AnneOnAMoose · 10/09/2025 13:03

"...Yet to see one articulate post in support of Reform..."

None so blind as those who will not see.

And as for the rest of your post - That was funny as fuck! Best laugh I've had all week.

Well you just proved @doubleshotcappuccino's post.🙈

TooBigForMyBoots · 10/09/2025 18:40

OonaStubbs · 10/09/2025 17:34

Reform are going to win the next general election unless something very drastic happens between now and then.

We had a discussion at work the other day and everyone agreed that flying the flags isn't racist, illegal immigration needs to be stopped, and that Keir Starmer is an idiot. This is an office in a fairly safe Labour seat in the "red wall". Reform was not mentioned but everyone was talking about the points they campaign on.

Reform will not win a majority in the next GE because of Nigel Farage and his well known inabilities.

OonaStubbs · 10/09/2025 19:24

It doesn't matter. People think Starmer is useless. People don't have to be right to vote.

I'd say Starmer should step down but I don't think Labour have anyone waiting in the wings that would be any better.

Bumblebee72 · 10/09/2025 19:27

OonaStubbs · 10/09/2025 19:24

It doesn't matter. People think Starmer is useless. People don't have to be right to vote.

I'd say Starmer should step down but I don't think Labour have anyone waiting in the wings that would be any better.

Maybe the new Deputy Prime Minister could step in. He is meant to be the next best that Labour have.

TooBigForMyBoots · 10/09/2025 19:43

Just because people think Starmer is useless doesn't mean they'll vote Reform.

Who, to date, have proven themselves totally useless and very expensive.

Bumblebee72 · 10/09/2025 19:56

TooBigForMyBoots · 10/09/2025 19:43

Just because people think Starmer is useless doesn't mean they'll vote Reform.

Who, to date, have proven themselves totally useless and very expensive.

It's not just that we think Starmer is useless, he is in power, we can observe that he is useless.

AnneOnAMoose · 10/09/2025 19:58

TooBigForMyBoots · 10/09/2025 19:43

Just because people think Starmer is useless doesn't mean they'll vote Reform.

Who, to date, have proven themselves totally useless and very expensive.

And when have LabCon proven themselves any better?

Certainly not in my lifetime!

AnneOnAMoose · 10/09/2025 20:01

"IF" LabCon are so much better... And they've been in power for almost the last century...

Why is the country in the mess it's currently in? - Surely it should be thriving after so many years of strong leadership & good management?

And why is Reform's credibility even up for discussion? - Surely if the other two are so good, then Reform would be on a par with Liberal - Barely even worth a mention.

PiggyPigalle · 10/09/2025 20:15

They're Trump obsessed. They are the British branch of the Republicans.
A presenter nearly passed out with excitement when Farage was about to go on stage recently. He's being treated like the second coming to save us all.

I blame the terrible politicians of recent years, I can't think of anyone impressive. Compare that to long ago and if the least successful were here, people would be mightily impressed.
That's from all sides. Even Liberals had good politicians.

Does anyone even know what Farage and co stand for? Foreign policy?

anyolddinosaur · 10/09/2025 20:24

Reform would improve my life by increasing the tax threshold, abolishing the TV license and technical changes to the taxation of banks. So in theory I'd be better off. I have no intention of voting for reform because firstly I dont believe their costings are correct and therefore the promised savings would not be delivered and secondly I actually care about cutting disabled people's benefits and about net zero.

But the other parties have also all tried to destroy womens rights, are incompetent and seem to have little idea of how to improve the economy. So I dont know if I can bring myself to hold my nose and vote for the - useless - local MP who has most chance of keeping Farage's puppet out in my area. I'm really hoping the economy will improve in the next few years and Labour will come to its senses and listen to voters.