To think that not toilet training your child is seriously irresponsible?

[SnugShaker]

I keep seeing stories about kids starting school still in nappies and I just don’t understand how that happens. Barring medical or developmental issues, surely toilet training is a basic part of parenting?

I get that every child is different but isn’t it neglectful to send a child into the world without such a fundamental skill? Interested to hear different perspectives, am I being too harsh or is this genuinely a problem?

That's because they were not allowed too ,untill they realised they were discriminating ,against children with disabilities or delays for whatever reason.

Do you really think it's easier to just not toilet train a child ,then change the nappies of an older child?

It’s not easier than when they’re trained and away but the interim period can be challenging. Hence some people put it off.

I’d argue it’s easier for some to just keep the nappies than potty train if a child is in childcare for full days and full time eg 8-6 Mon to Fri. But I found potty training pretty tough. Hated changing nappies still by the time they were coming up to two also but it was much easier than potty training.

Yes, DH and I never argued so much as we did while potty training, even though it clicked much more on our second attempt. It’s just easy to undermine each other with it, I think. We had a real battle of wills with DD too. I dread to think how much more stubborn she’d have been at much older.

It's so tough. Our son was toilet trained between Xmas and New year just gone and nailed it. Now, for the last 6 weeks he has been having non stop accidents. He is due to start school next week and I'm worried sick. He knows when to go but just gets distracted and I'm "hoping" it is just the anxiety of school and it will resolve once started.

It did take us 3 attempts between the ages of 2-3 to nail potty training. I found the key is to try and if it isn't working stop as it is too mcuh stress for all concerned. It's tough when nurseries don't help very much and as a parent you are working as well and only have evenings and weekends to try sort it.

I see this one is still going.

Another factor other than the fact that children in reception class were wetting and soiling themselves left right and centre in the 80s is that more children with SEN are in mainstream schools now.

There were a lot more “special schools” in my area when I was a kid that have now closed down and are now either businesses or flats.

Having worked at several schools/playgroups from 1983 to 1989 with hundreds of infant school aged children, they were most certainly not.

Yep.

My 9 year old is incontinent and needs changing multiple times a day due to his bowel issues. Not long ago he wouldn't have been allowed in a mainstream school but not only does he go to mainstream school, his school has changing facilities that cater to his needs.

Really?

So the “pants cupboard” and at least one child a day being sent home with wet pants in a plastic bag is something many of us mis-remember from the 80s?

Certainly no one was in nappies but accidents were very common in many children when I was in reception.

I barely remember a thing from reception, nevermind what other children’s bladder habits were.

Well we are all different arnt we I was in reception in 1978/79 and remember a child being scrubbed down in. A yellow bucket because he must have had a 💩 accident, think the rest of the kids had left ( can't remember why I was still there )
I also remember my friend being quietly led away from our table, and when i looked down there was a puddle of pee .

I remember the odd thing like that, but not what daily occurrences were etc.

Wait a couple of weeks, they'll be in the news again.

It’s weird how posters can give decades of experience of early years teaching and nursery nursing and say that willingness to toilet train is getting worse…and yet others insist that they must be mistaken.

I’m with those with longstanding, expert knowledge.

This thread doesn't apply to my situation as my daughter is disabled and will very likely never be "toilet trained" as such. She's catheterised for wees and on medication to keep her drunk, buy still wears nappies just in case . There are ways to achieve "social cleanliness" which we will explore closer to school age. Currently she's the only one in her group at nursery that's still in nappies, but there are definitely others who get distracted playing and have accidents or don't quite make it on time.

Anyway, the reason I'm commenting: I live abroad and recently saw a headline on the front of the main tabloid newspaper here: "Worrying number of children starting school in nappies and unable to speak local language". I'm unsure whether both points refer to the same children, but just thought it was interesting that it's apparently not just the UK seeing an increase in nappies at school.

There's a lady on instagram who says her child doesn't have SEN yet he is starting school in Sept. He has a dummy and nappies.

Boss mummy is the acct

I accidentally followed a mum one time, whose five year old was using a dummy and had really funny teeth and she kept bringing it up in stories and saying random people (shop cashier for example ) have been telling her dd she doesn’t need the dummy and what horrible people they must be for judging and shaming.

Agreed. Not talking about SEN kids, that's a different kettle of fish.

Many places. Pubs,holidays, camping, even parents evenings (I'm a teacher). One pub incident a very loud obnoxious bloke had brought his 2 kids to the pub, girl about 4, boy about 7. Girls nappy was so full it was down to her knees. This was a Friday evening in the beer garden which had a play area. We were sat in the garden with our kids while this dad was in the pub and his kids in the garden. Husband and I discussed it extensively as I was really upset by it and wanted to approach Dad to ask if I could change her. Obvs husband told me in no uncertain terms that was a very bad idea a) because I could be a random perv and b) because dad was busy being very sweary and loud in the pub with his mates. Now you could say, dad was perhaps a weekend dad but ultimately this little girl had not been trained to go to the toilet and was told by either one or both parents that it was ok to just pee in a nappy. Incidentally, the boy was going to tables asking for food too so this was a serious neglectful situation. This was the worst I've encountered but I've been shocked many times at the age of kids still in nappies. Due to job, I'm pretty aware of how SEN kids present and am obviously aware that some may need to continue to wear protection into adulthood, I take absolutely no issue with that but when a kid appears to have no motor or sensory issues I do.

Took us 3 attempts too with DD. We started at around 2years. 1st attempt - I had her out of nappies for a week in the summer, nappy back on at night but we made no progress. 2nd attempt - a friend told me to put her in knickers and every time she soiled them to have a soapy bucket nearby and get her to wash them (apparently this worked a treat for her daughter). No luck. 3rd attempt- we just put her on the potty in the morning as soon as she woke up and last thing before bed. We still had nappies on her during the day and night. after a couple of weeks we stopped the day nappies as she was asking for the potty and day nappies were dry. After another few weeks night nappies were also dry so we stopped those too. I think the routine trained her body and it worked for us but each child is different. She still had accidents obviously but these got far less frequent.

‘appears’ is the problem though because you don’t actually know unless you are aware of their background/medical information.

My son isn’t autistic, has no learning disabilities or sensory issues and he will need to wear pads into adulthood because his bowel doesn’t work correctly. You wouldn’t know that by just looking at him.

So you have seen one child then who appears to have been around four in a nappy on one occasion ?
There maybe many reasons for that or it maybe neglect as you say ,but nobody can really say.

My 8 year old only toilet trained this summer.

Once they get to around 4.5 not being toilet trained is not easier at all. You can't leave them anywhere like clubs, for obvious reasons and physically changing them when out is a nightmare. Products get far more expensive too. No NT child will allow themselves to be in nappies past around 4 either.

Exactly that's what I don't get ,my son trained at around nine it's not a walk in the park people seem to think it is ,he's severely autistic and was completely oblivious to wearing nappies but as you say a child without disabilities would refuse to wear them .

I agree with those saying changing an older child isn't easier. Maybe it is if the child can stand up? I don't know. My daughter is at the absolute upper age and weight limit for most changing facilities, and too long for basically all of them. So it's always a struggle to figure out where/how to change her. Not to mention the smell. I would so much rather stick her on the toilet to poo then quickly wipe her than clean the mushy, stinky poo from her entire nappy area. Possibly it's easier with children who have firmer poos and can actually stand up so it's just a case of whipping off the nappy and quickly cleaning them up? I'll probably never know.