To think that not toilet training your child is seriously irresponsible?

[SnugShaker]

I keep seeing stories about kids starting school still in nappies and I just don’t understand how that happens. Barring medical or developmental issues, surely toilet training is a basic part of parenting?

I get that every child is different but isn’t it neglectful to send a child into the world without such a fundamental skill? Interested to hear different perspectives, am I being too harsh or is this genuinely a problem?

More wisdom. What a fountain of sense and knowledge you are.

You’ll be surprised. It’s not always families with bigger issues going on. The parents I know are middle class and very wealthy (think two six-figure salaries) professionals whose DC are in childcare FT and their supportive nursery is asking them to get the ball rolling. We discussed it and I suggested the book I read which worked for us and mentioned we needed to take some time off work. The mum said they haven’t got time to read the book and weren’t taking time off unless it was to go away. 🤷‍♀️ I skim read each chapter the night before a new block started as I was time poor too. Some people are just lazy but I do think many encounter difficulties despite the best will in the world.

It's clearly not "fine" for a lot of posters on this thread though is it. My child was fortunate enough to be diagnosed before reception age, but a lot of children don't have their needs recognised until much later. Those are children who in the past wouldn't have been in mainstream, or if they were, would have been told off every day for wetting themselves and / or would have been bullied for smelling of piss. Everyone pays a token effort to "apart from SEN of course" but how on earth would you know whether these children do or don't have SEN in the first place?

Most SEN kids were either in institutions or at home. Well out of 30 you are likely to have a couple of children who are autistic in that class I guess who will struggle with potty training? I imagine my son isn't the only child with suspected autism when he starts school next year in his class. To be fair he should be toilet trained by that point I hope.

The issue with these threads is it always offends the parents that weren’t intended to be caught by it. Those who are pouring their heart and soul into supporting their children towards the best possible outcomes aren’t the ones who this thread is aimed at. There are unfortunately parents who delay or avoid the difficult aspects of parenting for their own convenience and they won’t always (although sometimes are) the parents of children with additional needs.

We tried very hard at age 3 and ds, NT, was just not having it, absolutely refused. We waited a year and while he Could do it during the day he was absolutely stubborn and used it as a means of control (and this was the kid that could make many of his own choices!). It took over a year from that point and I had the patience and perseverance of a Saint. I refused to get upset, in fact the more I ignored it the better it got. Even after he was mostly trained he continued to have accidents until maybe 7 years old. In a deadpan voice I told him, ‘you know what to do’ and he would completely clean himself up, change, and I had him push the buttons on the washer to wash his clothes if needed!
Maybe I could have yelled and screamed at him and he would have ‘learned’ sooner, but that’s not how I roll, and I deserve a trophy for patience that eventually worked!

Yes exactly this, we are in London and I did try at the time to push the nursery harder to help remind him rather than return to nappies but they were having none of it, and it was the only nursery which stayed open long enough to accommodate my working hours so no real option to move nursery. My second is in a different nursery, attached to a private school, but they take the same approach and don’t seem particularly supportive. Ridiculous for the amount of fees they charge but that’s a separate topic.

Every bloody year a thread like this pops up…

I remember when I was a kid starting school in the 80s there were some kids there who wet their pants every single day.

Maybe the difference is just that today’s parents stick a pull-up on them to save the carpet/ clothing changes/ embarrassment?

Yep I started school in 1978 and I remember the same I think posters look back with rose coloured glasses .

Exactly ! This used to happen a lot !

When I started school it wasn't until you were five and I remember the 'pants cupboard' in the reception classroom.

Some parents are very good at playing the game o my child has medical concerns and that is why they are still wearing nappies etc when they start school. Yes some children do have valid reasons why they are still in nappies etc, but a lot of parents are too lazy to toilet train their child and don't think it's their job to do that.
1 of my very close friends works in the nursery class of a school, she tells me that most of the children who start in September are still wearing nappies, have a dummy, drink from a baby bottle, can't sit at a table and feed themselves, can use cutlery.
All of my children were toilet trained, were able to sit at a table, feed themselves with cutlery and talk before they started at nursery.
Lazy parenting!!

Do you really think it's easier to just not toilet train a child ,then change the nappies of an older child?
This always gets me my son is disabled and in nappies for years longer than average
If I could have toilet trained him sooner than I would have it's really not pleasant to be changing the nappies of an older chold and I dont get why people think that's the preferred option.

I am not saying that. Yes I can understand your situation is different to other families, I am saying that children who don't have any medical / health concerns. I would fully understand a child who has a disability to be not necessarily toilet trained by the time they start school.

My point is disability or not it's not easier to change the nappy of an older child if they are capable of toilet training, and no typical child would want to wear nappies either.

And do you understand at 4 most medical/ SEND issues will not be diagnosed or even identified? I completely disagree that a lot of parents are too lazy, not saying it’s none but in my twenty years of primary teaching I would say it’s a very very small minority.

We’ve got huge chunks of society who receive everything for nothing, putting zero effort in parenting, have no work ethic, morals or education, and churn out not only kids that are not potty trained, but also actual little bullying thugs that turn school life into a nightmare for both teachers and regular children.
It’s a huge sociocultural problem that people are too scared to admit let alone consider solving.

There’s a difference between the odd accident in infants class (hence the pants cupboard) and not being toilet trained.
No rose coloured glasses here, very few of my generation (born mid 60s) were still in nappies at 2 and a half.

How would you know, you were two and a half?
And there's a difference between not technically being in nappies and frequent accidents.

Yes it's a ball ache but how much effort is it to sit your kid in a potty in the morning and evening as a bare minimum. They will soon have dry nappies. I've seen kids of 4 and 5 years old with bulging full nappies where there parents have just kept the nappy on all day. It's disgusting and is completely neglectful.

If only I’d thought to do that …

It’s very very different with a SEN child. Sometime due to sensory and balance issues they can’t even sit on a potty or toilet seat !

Where have you seen this?

I remember discussing this with my health visitor when mine were small, she told me that no child ever started school in nappies, roll on over 30 years and here we are, children ARE at school in nappies, so what has gone wrong?😬

A combination of more SEN plus most children attend nurseries who are quick to put children back in nappies but parents can’t just take off a week or two to potty train whereas 20-30 years ago there were more sahp who were able to stay home for a week to focus on it