To think that not toilet training your child is seriously irresponsible?

[SnugShaker]

I keep seeing stories about kids starting school still in nappies and I just don’t understand how that happens. Barring medical or developmental issues, surely toilet training is a basic part of parenting?

I get that every child is different but isn’t it neglectful to send a child into the world without such a fundamental skill? Interested to hear different perspectives, am I being too harsh or is this genuinely a problem?

Someone I know didn’t bother potty training her kid and she was very proud of it!

“Why should I go through the hassle when school can take care of it? He’ll learn faster through peer pressure anyway."

🤔

What happened? Did he learn? Or is he 12 and still in nappies?

^ This and then add to the mix that both parents are working full time and potty training turns 2 way battle of wills with a confused toddler in the middle!

I had this with youngest DC, as I insisted on pants insisted of nappies. Got a lot of grief from the nursery because of accidents and subsequent cleaning. But stuck to my guns otherwise DC would have started school in nappies

My DS is toilet trained but has some issues with his guts and will frequently mess himself (he thinks it’s just a fart). He gets so upset about it. Not every parent with a child who messes themselves is negligent. There is a huge amount of SEN now too and these children mustn’t be discriminated against on the basis of not being potty trained. Admittedly there are some parents who simply can’t be bothered but in most cases I suspect it’s more nuanced than that!

He did learn! 😂

She was oddly competitive. At times, bragging about being the best mum. Then just as proudly about being the laziest 😅

It's also a crumbling school buildings problem. Most of the toilets in DS's school are broken and half are both broken and locked. For months several parents wondered if their child had some sort of issue with going to the toilet at school and I guess they did... but the issue is the school, not the children.

Threads like this annoy me. Some parents are lazy but there are so many other factors that people don’t consider.

My LO is adopted. The move to us was delayed (thanks to the court system) and then there was too much change to consider attempting potty training for many many months. The end result is a child who is almost 4, no SEN or developmental issues but who is only now attempting potty training and really struggling with it.
If you were told about them you’d think I’m lazy because LO is so clearly ok, and I’ve had a lot of awful comments from strangers about using baby change facilities or how I need to ‘get on with it’ but people have no bloody idea.

Unless this directly affects you in some way I don’t think you should be voicing an opinion tbh.

Define toilet trained. I define it as not needing any help to go to the toilet. That means deciding they need to go, taking themselves there, using the toilet, cleaning themselves and washing their hands.

Some people define it as not wearing nappies.

if you define it as not wearing nappies all my dc were done between 17-22 months.

if you define it as not needing any help in the toilet that goes up to much closer to 3-3.5 years.

it’s absolutely OK to be at either end of a very wide spectrum. But remember definitions absolutely vary!!!

The issue with starting reception or school nursery so young is that at 3-4 many children who have SEN and may struggle with toileting aren't diagnosed yet.

My son is incontinent and has to be changed multiple times a day at school. He goes to a mainstream school and they have changing facilities.

Several teacher friends have told me that this is now a thing.

Yes, that seems to be the case. Back in the day, my dd's nursery also took on the potty training alongside me. And they so many parents are working fulltime, so if the nursery doesn't help...

Many nurseries don't have the time or resources to deal with the sheer volume of children who are not toilet trained by the time they reach nursery. They have behaviour management issues to deal with as well as development targets and onerous admin requirements too.

Yes, children with SEN or other challenges may need support for longer when it comes to toilet training, nobody disputes that. Not every child that needs support has an SEN or specific challenge. IME some (not all) parents of SEN children do their children no favours by setting the bar too low when it comes to toilet training and some parents of NT children are just too lazy or disinterested to bother doing the training. After all they can let school sort it out...

You are absolutely spot on OP, but you’ll get all the “oh you have to wait until they’re ready” brigade. When in actually fact, if you teach your kid up until age 3 and 4 that it is fine to poo in a nappy, then of course it’ll feel fine to poo their pants - as you’re teaching them it’s fine. Most kids will be ready at 24 months. It’s lazy parenting to wait longer. Get them out of nappies ASAP, read them a book from 18 months about potties/bug pants and then get it done. It is not nursery’s job or school’s job it is the job of the parent. Of working full time then take a week of leave, stay at home for 1 week and train your kid. It’s not rocket science.

But why did nurseries actively help with potty training 30 years ago? Ratios haven't changed, if anything they're more strict with carer - baby ratios now.

And what the hell do you mean by the time they reach nursery ? Most babies start nursery at 12 months ! No baby is potty trained at 12 months.

How are you supposed to potty train a 2 year old if the childcare setting they are in for 5 days a week is refusing to help ? A parent can only do so much in 2 days.

Potty training at 18 months - 2 years requires consistency over months and months.

It's why parents then have to wait until 3 - 3.5 when kids can learn in a couple of days

You're blaming the parents when the institutions that are being paid to care for their child are inadequate.

I followed advice on here and decided to wait until DS was ready. His nursery required him to be dry for 2 weeks before allowing him to attend in pants. I also followed advice here and trained in the summer. So that only left a really short window as a summer born - if it hadn’t have worked he would have struggled. There was no way I was taking 2 weeks leave to try out toilet training. So I built it up a bit, and told nursery that he was dry. Obviously he then had a few “accidents” at nursery so I had to feign surprise. They were about to tell me that he needed to go back to nappies but luckily it just changed one day. The peer pressure of other nursery children definitely helped.

I was far more relaxed with DC2, and was very lucky as he just got it. The children are all so different, I probably wouldn’t doing anything different if I had my time again. I wasted so much effort trying to force the issue with DC1 but the message was quite clear that they couldn’t start school in nappies so I had to persevere in case it didn’t work in time for school starting.

Yeah, I know a couple who put it off for years with the view that their child wasn’t ready and that they didn’t want to pressure them or cause damage. But this resulted in a distressing rush for all, most of all their four and a half year old, when preschool called them to say they really need to be out of nappies now.

I agree with you OP if it genuinely is down to laziness on the parents’ behalf. I do know a small amount of kids though who really were very challenging to train despite their parents’ efforts eg with older siblings who were trained even before 2.

I found potty training one of the hardest parts of parenting in the early years. DH and I argued so much during our attempts. We often used to say in frustration “No wonder people put it off!”

This is why it’s helpful to train whilst the ratios are 1-5 in the toddler room, rather than 1:8/1:13 in the preschool room. It was lower when mine trained too.

My child is SEN 4yo in nappies (I know that bit isn’t the discussion). When talking with LA to discuss how she will go to school I was told many children start school in nappies it’s no problem.

in my daily life though I haven’t met a kid over 3 not toilet trained who isn’t SEN.

i am curious for those who say schools won’t accept them in nappies, how is that possible, they legally have to go.

I think it totally depends on the child. I started toilet training both my children when they were 2. DC1 got the hang of it within 2 weeks. DC2 took almost 2 years - he started off being able to wee in a potty as long as he wasn't wearing any clothes on his bottom half, then managed with clothes, but was really scared of pooing in a potty or toilet and started refusing to poo. Because he only pooed at home, he was "out of nappies" in preschool, and wore pants with no problems, but still wasn't fully toilet trained. I used resources from ERIC and gradually worked through various stages until he was fully independent by to the time he started reception.

It certainly wasn't laziness on my part - it involved a lot more time and effort toilet training the slow learner than the fast one, and I felt so much pressure (mostly from threads like this) to speed things up, but I know so many children who had long term physical damage from withholding poo and I'm really glad that I was able to prevent that in his case.

So yes, some parents are probably lazy and neglectful, but I've met plenty more who were diligent and committed to supporting a child who was, for whatever reason, outside the norm.

And it's all very well making an exception for kids with SEN, but in many cases, difficulty with toilet training is an early indication of something that won't be diagnosed for years.

Parents just don’t take responsibility for anything that is a hassle.
if your child has no SEN issues and you are not toilet training them, then you are just lazy !

I'm currently trying to get my almost 3 year old out of nappies.
I've been trying all summer.
What is making it hard is the fact that she goes to nursery 5 days a week whilst I work, so whilst she is mostly nappy free at the weekend, weekdays she is back in nappies as when we try and go nappy free at nursery she will have 6/7 accidents and they ask to put her back in pull ups.
A week off work would probably help get it nailed and stop the confusion for her of in and out of nappies, but I had to use all AL earlier in the year to cover sickness.
I'm not condoning sending children to school in nappies.
If anyone had any advice for my situation, I'll gladly take it!

Can you ask for some unpaid leave? As you say, a week off will nail it

Equally the nappy industry has managed to convince parents to wait for 'readiness' which is a load of rubbish. The median age for potty training increased dramatically after disposable nappies were invented but people will argue til they're blue in the face that their 3.5 year old still isn't 'ready'.

It does happen. I retired from teaching 10 years ago and it was happening then.

So true.