To ask if you'll be attending the anti fascism protest on 13 September

[Whatafustercluck]

I'd like to go in solidarity with like minded people, but worry about it turning violent. I won't be taking my children and will likely be going alone. Lots of people I know detest Tommy Robinson but will stay away due to the likelihood of trouble, but I really want to help send a message that racism and hatred won't win. Is anyone here considering going, or decided to stay away?

@misoandchips The Roman occupation of Britain two thousand years ago isn’t a “gotcha” that makes colonialism harmless. It actually underlines the point: empire is violent domination first, selective benefits second. The fact that some infrastructure survived doesn’t erase the slaughter, enslavement, and cultural erasure that came with conquest.

And even if there were positive legacies, that doesn’t make the violence justified — any more than saying “well, trains ran on time under Mussolini” makes fascism acceptable.

Modern colonialism was not an ancient curiosity but a system of extraction, enslavement, and subjugation that shaped global inequality and trauma still felt today. Comparing that to organic cultural exchange and migration in a democracy today is a false equivalence — because immigration is not conquest.

People are not arriving with armies, they are arriving with families.

Completely agree @amoobaa 💯

💯

@Menopausalsourpuss

“People are obsessed with WWII because it’s the only history they know”

• Actually, WWII dominates public memory because it shaped the world order we still live in today — NATO, the UN, the EU, human rights law, even the NHS came out of the war.
• People do study the Balkans, Lebanon, Rwanda, etc., but WWII remains central because of its scale and its global impact, not because people are ignorant.

“Tribal people forced to live together always fight”

• That’s a simplification. Plenty of diverse societies live together peacefully when there’s fairness, good governance, and equal opportunity (e.g. Canada, Singapore, much of London).
• Conflict usually arises not just from diversity, but from poverty, political corruption, and leaders exploiting differences. Blaming diversity alone ignores those root causes.

“Immigrants hate the West and treat women badly”

• That’s a sweeping generalisation. Many immigrants come precisely because they value freedoms, education, and opportunities here.
• Studies show that immigrant communities often have higher rates of upward mobility and strong support for democratic institutions.
• Problems around gender equality exist everywhere — including within Britain historically. It’s not unique to newcomers.

“They get better NHS treatment than locals”

• There’s no evidence that immigrants get preferential treatment in the NHS. In fact:
• Migrants are net contributors to the NHS — 1 in 6 NHS workers is foreign-born.
• The idea that “they get more” is often based on anecdote, not data.
• If services feel stretched, that’s a funding issue decided by government policy, not the presence of immigrants.
• I work in the NHS and I disagree with you completely,

“The 90s were more harmonious because immigration was lower”

• The 90s weren’t exactly a golden age — think of the race riots in Oldham, Bradford, Burnley (2001), the Stephen Lawrence case, or the growth of the BNP.
• Social cohesion depends more on integration policies, housing, education, and inequality than raw numbers.
• Also, immigration has been central to Britain’s economic growth since the 2000s — NHS, tech, construction, and universities all rely heavily on it.

The real issue isn’t how many immigrants there are, but whether we build a fair, well-resourced system where everyone feels included.

Blaming immigration just lets those in power off the hook. It’s depressing how easily people are manipulated into turning on each other instead of demanding better from the government — they end up arguing against their own interests without even realising it.

Well said @amoobaa

Well said ChatGPT I think.

No. You don't understand facism, that is very, very clear from your previous post.

Might I suggest some books that might help you understand the concept.

Inside the nazi mind by Laurence rees and Facism - origin story would be an excellent start. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Origin-Story-Untitled-Book-3/dp/1399612921#averageCustomerReviewsAnchor

The language on the flags and signs is telling. “Clear them out” - it’s as though they were talking about rubbish rather than human beings.
Dehumanisation. We’ve seen that as a tactic before haven’t we?

@llizzie You’ve got a bit confused here, and mixed a lot of different things together, in a way that doesn’t really make much sense.

1. History: Fascism isn’t defined by “any cruelty” — it’s a specific political ideology of ultra-nationalism, dictatorship, and suppression of minorities. Hitler didn’t “introduce” fascism; Mussolini coined the term in Italy first.
2. Taliban ≠ Fascism: The Taliban are brutal and misogynistic, but they’re not fascists. They’re a religious fundamentalist movement — different history, different ideology. Lumping them together just distorts both.
3. Immigration: Saying that supporting asylum seekers = supporting fascism is the exact opposite of reality. Fascism is about closing borders, scapegoating minorities, and demonising outsiders. Standing with vulnerable people fleeing persecution is the opposite — it’s anti-fascist.
4. Smears about Muslim men: The claim that Muslim immigrants are all “military age men” who “assault women” is a sweeping stereotype. The vast majority of people fleeing here are looking for safety, jobs, and stability. Demonising entire groups because of the actions of a few is exactly the kind of thinking fascists used in the 1930s.

So if we really want to “learn from history,” the lesson is: beware of broad generalisations about entire groups, and don’t let fearmongering turn compassion into suspicion.

@amoobaa "People are not arriving with armies, they are arriving with families."

No - According to the latest figures, out of the 38,023 illegal small boat migrant arrivals recorded up until March, 87 per cent were male.

So the army is arriving first and no doubt the weapons will be arriving later after these "sleepers" have entrenched themselves into our society.

We have already seen the problems caused by these undocumented young men in the form of sexual crimes.

The top countries these migrants are coming from are currently Afghanistan, Syria and Eritrea, the report found.
Figures show 5,766 of the more than 38,000 who crossed the Channel up to the end of March were from Afghanistan.

Home Office lawyers have argued the rights of asylum seekers are more important than those of Epping council, as the Court of Appeal considers The Bell Hotel injunction.

So now the government is putting the rights of these invaders before it's own people.

Funny how instead of engaging with what I actually said, the best comeback is “must be ChatGPT.” Almost like the argument itself holds up 😉

If “sounding coherent” now equals “must be ChatGPT,” I’ll take that as a win.

@amoobaa The claim that Muslim immigrants are all “military age men” who “assault women” is a sweeping stereotype."

87% are male so it isn't "sweeping"

And yes, they assault women

https://yournews.com/2025/03/11/3292903/uk-migrant-crime-statistics-reveal-sexual-offense-convictions-71-higher/

We have enough home-grown rapists and kiddy-fiddlers without importing any more.

Do you think the Pakistani Muslim rape gangs were just an outlier on the graphs?

@amoobaa

The real issue isn’t how many immigrants there are, but whether we build a fair, well-resourced system where everyone feels included.

I agree with your statement in theory, but when net immigration is adding the population equivalent to a major city to the UK, year after year after year, that significantly impedes our ability to build “a fair, well-resourced system”, especially when those migrants, on average, are not high earners and are net drains economically on the state (as evidence suggest that they are).

And when a significant proportion of those immigrants come from cultures that are starkly different from our own, and there is no expectation of cultural integration, we have a fractured society where people do feel included.

And the cultural differences are significant and existential…

Personally, I’m determined to fight to protect the fundamental British values of tolerance, democracy, freedom of expression, equal rights for women, and the rule of law (ie English/Scottish law) are preserved. They form the foundations of a society and culture, and we risk taking them from granted…

Sadly, many of the cultures from which today’s immigrants come from do not have these any of these characteristics, and with no incentive to integrate, they dilute and undermine these fundamental values that make the UK (for all its faults) a great place to live.

The majority don’t generally have an issue with about immigration per se, and if it was a) at pre-2000 levels, and b) from cultures that were more compatible with British values outlined above, then there wouldn’t be the groundswell of anger we see today, and the widespread electoral support for Reform wouldn’t exist (as it didn’t until recently when parties opposing immigration were very fringe).

Trying to characterise this anger as “far-right” and “fascist” just antagonises people and is completely counter-productive. If the Left want Reform to win, they are doing everything they can to support them, albeit unwittingly.

@misoandchips Quoting numbers doesn’t change the fact that these are human beings fleeing war and persecution.

Yes, many are men, but did you ever consider that’s because families often send them ahead to survive the journey and establish a safe base before their wives and children try to follow? That’s been the case in refugee flows throughout history.

Calling them an “army” or “invaders” is misleading. These people are unarmed civilians — mostly from countries like Afghanistan, Syria, and Eritrea, which Britain itself has been heavily involved in, militarily or politically. To frame them as “sleepers” waiting for weapons is a conspiracy, not evidence.

And the “rights” point: asylum seekers do have rights under international law, which Britain helped create after WWII. Protecting those rights isn’t putting “others before our own”, it’s upholding the legal and moral standards that make us a civilised country.

My world view is shaped by thinkers like Noam Chomsky, who’s been warning for decades that fear and dehumanising language are used to manipulate the public. You should read some of his work.

You mean the now debunked Stanford prison experiment?

"Invaders" 🙄

@misoandchips - can you think of any reasons people may wish to flee a country like Afghanistan? Anything at all?

What do you mean "no doubt the weapons will be arriving later."

Wtf are you talking about?

Most of these men are leaving precisely because they despise the regimes in their home countries. Many will have got on the wrong side of the authorities there, or perhaps spoken out. Perhaps they are LGBT or a religious minority? And how can you possibly argue that being a migrant is equivalent to being a potential sex offender?! Just listen to yourself.

people need to take a step back with open minds and look at all the division being created in the UK. This division is by design. The elites want us divided it is easier to control the population. Protest the government and those hierarchy that cause divide not each other! The likes of Tommy Robinson are literally paid actors to stir up hate and division. And don’t believe everything the media tells you!

Indeed, the statistics indicate that the rate of sexual crime from migrants from certain countries is 20 times that (per head of population) than the background level. Not 50%, 100%, or even 2 times higher….. 20 times (2000%) higher! Yes, we don’t have enormous samples, but they are big enough statistically to highlight that there’s an issue. I wonder if those belittling these figures would do so if they lived in proximity to a migrant hotel and had a teenage daughter.

And that’s the root of why people are so angry… the Left is more concerned about being politically correct than they are about the safety of young women… I’d say that’s a fundamentally misogynistic perspective…. But then as their views on transgender issues showed, the Left have form for being misogynistic dressed in a cloak of feminism.

And none of the above means we don’t have an issue with male sexual violence in general, and that we don’t need to address that - it’s not an either-or thing.

I love that your response to anything you don’t agree with is ‘get off GB News’.

It is in fact true that landlords are being offered incentives by local councils and private organisations like Serco to join asylum seeker housing schemes. It’s the only way the government can meet its pledge to reduce the use of hotels in this Parliament.

I thought Robinson was EDL , not BNP

Your lengthy posts are about 15 minutes apart and very much in the style of ChatGPT. You've churned out a load of AI slop.

These migrants have passed through a dozen or so safe countries before they arrive here… They have no business entering illegally in boats. Even Labour agree with that!

@GoodPudding - the vast majority of sexual crimes are perpetrated by men who are family members, friends or men known to victims. This is true across all cultures and demographics.

Why aren't Farage and Reform up in arms about date rape on university campuses? Why do Farage or TR never incite their followers to march against abuse perpetrated by Catholic priests? Why aren't they campaigning against internet porn and the devastation impact of this in our society? I notice he's very quiet about the Epstein scandal - or any sexual crimes that happen to be perpetrated by white males. The hypocrisy is off the scale.

One of the protests local to me is slightly more nuanced than I initially thought; locals are protesting that asylum seeking families are being moved for the hotel to become men only.

I imagine some of these men are of the variety that the women and children were trying to escape.

Im not sure what single men from countries were women do not have human rights can add to that community.

The people who need to leave Afghanistan are the women who are oppressed and denied education, not the cowardly men who run away.

It's an invasion just that no-one has supplied the weapons yet - obviously you don't know what a "sleeper" is.