To ask if you'll be attending the anti fascism protest on 13 September

[Whatafustercluck]

I'd like to go in solidarity with like minded people, but worry about it turning violent. I won't be taking my children and will likely be going alone. Lots of people I know detest Tommy Robinson but will stay away due to the likelihood of trouble, but I really want to help send a message that racism and hatred won't win. Is anyone here considering going, or decided to stay away?

The people who need to leave Afghanistan are those who supported troops during the 20 years they were there and who were abandoned when they were withdrawn.

I've always suspected that the " end of the world" will be as a result of collective nervous breakdown rather than fiery apocalypse, and some of the posts here are rather proving the point.

Whipping up hatred against any group of people can lead to them becoming fearful and defensive, tensions rise, and oh look, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

To the posters claiming that there are no parallels with other periods in history when fascism has become popular, the first steps towards it are rising nationalism, and encouragement towards violent / oppressive rhetoric towards the "enemy" of choice.

We're seeing it and hearing it towards immigrants, the disabled, the poor in general especially benefit claimants, women, basically anyone who, regardless of actual character or circumstance falls under a sweeping generalisation that can be leveraged as "it's not fair" that we currently live in a society where the vulnerable and disadvantaged are afforded humane treatment. And that humane treatment is realistically the bare minimum and extremely conditional.

One of the strong undertones at the moment is "stop them breeding" alongside dressed up versions of euthanasia. That is also a fascistic attitude, the cleansing of undesirables.

If a leader or party comes into power that panders to the rhetoric and puts policies in place that reflect the alleged will of the people, there tends to be mission creep, and the turkeys who voted for Christmas will be very bewildered and indignant when they suddenly find themselves "undesirable".

Everyone is being played for mugs here by rich and powerful people punch drunk on the fact who give not one shiny shit about the pawns on the chessboard. They're hoping we'll do the hard and messy bit of turning on each other - there'll likely be casualties on the way, and whoevers left will find themselves wondering what a human right was and how people used to make their feelings felt before political dissent was criminalised. And that will be so much easier to do thanks to technology and pre crime detecting AI. (Announced by our government earlier this year, and rolling out in the US next week).

A friend of mine lives in that community.

They had no problems when the hotel was used for families. Now they plan to put undocumented young men in there they are very concerned for their children.

Hence the protests.

Watch TR’s address to the Oxford Union and scour for examples of ‘racism’. I too was repulsed by TR, until persuaded by non white friends to watch it and look at what he has actually said and done. He is anti Islam, not anti Muslim. Islam is a belief system not a race.

@MistressoftheDarkSide "One of the strong undertones at the moment is "stop them breeding" alongside dressed up versions of euthanasia. That is also a fascistic attitude, the cleansing of undesirables."

Then it looks like we have a fascist government.

Bills for abortion up to birth and euthanasia going through parliament, single mums with kids being booted out of HMOs to let migrants in.

Scary stuff.

@misoandchips - It is very normal for men to try and establish themselves in a country first, gaining citizenship in the hope if bringing a family later by a safer route (if they even have a family),

Being a man in Afghanistan does not mean you support the Taliban by default - you do realise this? Most of the migrants will despise the regimes they are fleeing.

And yes, some will be purely economic migrants. But being an economic migrant is hardly equivalent to being a 'sleeper' or a sexual deviant ffs.

I would want to protest that too tbh. It is really a situation where some existing residents of that community; adolescent girls and lone women are likely to be the most vulnerable in that situation.

We have enough problems with the men of our own country, we do not need more, sadly. I wish I could not discriminate, but the statistics of VAW&G tell us we do not need more men, thanks very much!

Oh God, will someone please correct this poster regarding the recent amendments around abortion and assisted dying? I'm losing the will to live.

Exactly this.

It's just a slippery slope.....

Your post has been on my mind since I saw it.

I very much consider myself a patriot. I have bunting and flags that come out for football and rugby matches and on VE Day - Victory in Europe where we celebrated the defeat of Nazism. Flags have gone up in the Reform controlled council area where I grew up - it makes me feel really uncomfortable. I feel upset that our flag is being used as symbol of racism and hate.

The outward racism and ignorance on this thread is depressing. I have worries myself about people coming unchecked across the sea on boats. But I hate that they are being used as an easy target to stoke up racism and ill feeling toward anyone not white. I hate our intolerance towards people less well off than ourselves. Often fleeing counties where the UK has had a hand in destabilising the situation.

I have lots of friends and colleagues who are not white. All working hard, paying tax and contributing to making the vibrant society we live in. Just like the vast majority of immigrants to this country do. I feel so sad at the racism being directed towards them.

I’ve never been on a protest. But the line from the Manic Street Preachers song keeps going through my head ‘if we tolerate this our children will be next’. My daughter and sister are gay. Will they be the next target?

So yes I will be marching.Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

I think we’re all losing it. Those posts are a fact free zone.

I've had friends who are otherwise sane and rational people coming out with stuff that's given me whiplash given their usual position on things. Turns out they've seen carefully crafted clickbait headlines and taken them as hard fact. Which puts one in the awkward position of explaining what has actually happened without making them feel stupid or coming across as arrogant, particularly around the abortion misinformation. Not everyone has the time to look deeper into the issues at hand, and while I'm opposed broadly to media censorship, I do think the press should be a damn sight more careful about what they print.

Of course the paranoid cynic in me suspects it's all by design, however I'm trying to hold onto my rationality for grim death.

I've had friends who are otherwise sane and rational people coming out with stuff that's given me whiplash given their usual position on things. Turns out they've seen carefully crafted clickbait headlines and taken them as hard fact. Which puts one in the awkward position of explaining what has actually happened without making them feel stupid or coming across as arrogant, particularly around the abortion misinformation. Not everyone has the time to look deeper into the issues at hand, and while I'm opposed broadly to media censorship, I do think the press should be a damn sight more careful about what they print.

Of course the paranoid cynic in me suspects it's all by design, however I'm trying to hold onto my rationality for grim death.

Have your "anti fascist march" by all means but choosing to do it on the same day, same place, same time, as a well organised, popular and potentially huge march for freedom of speech, not aligned with any political party, is surely just deliberate provocation and attention seeking?

I am an immigrant in UK.
I do not even know where to start with this, to be honest.
From my point of view, UK is developing two groups of extreme ideologies, one to the right and one to the left. Well.. theoretically, because the groups are so insane that is difficult to even proper classify them. They are, of course, a minority. But... they are loud and intelligent. They do call each other names, like fascist, which really does not apply. Both sides are supremacists, as they do think themselves the best, to the full exclusion of other views.
The general public identifies with some of the issues at one side, or the other, depending on their personal circumstances. Just because they may utter half a sentence that sounds like right or left, there and then, they are branded, called nasty names and ostracised. Recipe for utter disaster. Why is UK doing this to itself? I cannot fanthom it.
The only solution is to address the problems. First acknowledge them. All European countries, even US, are having issues with illegal entries, all of them, including UK. No country should have any illegal entry, whatsoever. That is the target. No illegal entry. Which does not mean no assylum, it means those who have assylum claims should be brought here or other countries by those countries authorities or, preferably, assisted in situ or nearby. The business of moving people across continents illegally has to be a multi billion one by now. Surely this people are not that difficult to find and remove. They do have to handle all that money and resources and contacts....
Some immigrants are really valuable to the country. Others are not. It cannot be that difficult to find out who is who.
I am not here to impose anything on the UK citizen. But others are. I have seen it with my own eyes. What is the point of denying it?
I think UK is a centre society. Neither to the right or the left, but maybe slightly leaning towards left centre in policies, and conservative in economics. Why can those two extremes pull appart the big chunk of people in the centre? is my question. Because there is no way creating two sides for each part of political life and calling each other nasty names is going to sort this. That will only encroach the problem further. The solution is to ask the government to properly plan for changes in demography regarding services, because they actually can. Remove anyone that acts against UK interest. Hunt the smuggling gangs and take their money to pay for the extra GPs, hospitals, dentists... we need to accomodate any wanted ( like allowed by legal visas or birth rate) increase in population.
We should all be out there demonstrating in mass to demand proper services from the government. We need more GPs, a proper functioning NHS, pharmacies that do have the drugs you need, stop schools from dropping course after course, an adjustment on the cost of living/ wage with the aim to remove benefits once and for all ( bar for ill or disable people). That is what we should be protesting about.
But you seem distracted, calling the neighbour this or that, because they raise or not raise a flag.
It is working wonders for those who take our money and offer no proper services in return.....

Thank you @MushMonster for your sensible post

It is. They love it and move from one cause to another - depends who's sposoring it. I am surprised they do not have their banners mixed up :)

I agree with that too. Now is like two fronts that the police needs to keep separated. Instead of allowing people to express their concerns.
I think it will be like Maga. Farage will win on the back of the ignoring, ostracising and name calling. Then it will turn to his bonkers politics, instead of the original idea. Trump is in trouble with quite a few of the Maga more outspoken. And I am not sure he will make it to the full term without those guys....

I do think that some of us (me) need to check our privilege. I live in a middle class suburban community of families, with good schools where my children are relatively 'safe' walking to school.

I think Reform are a hateful party and would never consider voting for them.

Im not sure that everyone protesting is hateful though. I wouldn't want to live in the vicinity of any residence filled with large group of disenfranchised men (in the case of my local protest). I don't think it it helpful for any individual man to live within a large group of disenfranchised men.

I think there are key debates from both sides however I just want to throw in my thoughts...

First, if asylum seekers only make up 5% of migrants, how does removing them help us as a country? They get minimal money, as far as I'm aware they legally cannot work so cannot contribute to society. Surely the best thing to do is increase the processing of these asylum seekers and either keep them, let them work or send them back if they do not qualify.

Asylum seekers cannot be illegal immigrants so those are people who have overstayed their visas correct? As far as I'm aware, they cant get free handouts either due to not having legal paperwork. Also, having worked at a university, the delays on removing students who overstay their visas has come from issues during COVID and they were playing catch up.

Finally, a huge reason that universities are struggling now is because its been made much harder for international students to come into the country. They pay so much for their fees and contribute to the economy in terms of rent etc. If it continues, then British students will be the ones shouldering rising costs as their course fees will need to increase.

I'm not saying theres a one size fit all answer, but migration has supported this country for a long time and I'm struggling with the premise of "kick them all out" "we want our country back" when migration has allowed the country to develop?

Again I'm not arguing with anyone, these are just my initial thoughts.

Oh that's ok then. As long as he's only Islamophobic 🙄 He's perfectly fine with other belief systems then?

No belief system should be beyond criticism. Dont lets make it so.

Not Islamophobic, no more than many others should be called Roman Catholic phobic for criticising the Catholic Church and some of its adherents for failing to act on paedophilic priests.

There is no law that says one cannot be anti-Islam, or anti-Christian either - neither are attached to 'races'. To be anti-Judaism might cause you problems if you are also anti-Semitic, but I think you can criticise any religion without being racist. It must be possible to criticise any belief system otherwise we face a tyrrany of belief - and we all know from history where that one goes: massacres, executions of 'heretics' and 'blasphemers' etc. I attended church last Sunday. It was St. Bartholomew's day - the anniversary of the St. Bartholomew massacre in France in 1572, which killed 30k prostestants, initiated and done by order of the state. We must have freedom of conscience, freedom to criticise/and ridicule any religion and freedom to leave a religion/change our religion without being punished for apostasy.