To ask if you'll be attending the anti fascism protest on 13 September

[Whatafustercluck]

I'd like to go in solidarity with like minded people, but worry about it turning violent. I won't be taking my children and will likely be going alone. Lots of people I know detest Tommy Robinson but will stay away due to the likelihood of trouble, but I really want to help send a message that racism and hatred won't win. Is anyone here considering going, or decided to stay away?

🙄 back at you

Nope, not attending.

This thread is indeed tedious. Parts of the left will call anyone a fascist who’s anywhere right of Gordon Brown.

Tommy Robinson is a common or garden racist. So are all the antisemites on the left of the Labour Party, in the PSC etc.

There are fascists in the UK. But there are very few of them and you won’t find them at street punch ups. Those people are just re-purposed football hooligans.

Both sides can go about their silly games and get their thrills either ‘protecting Ingerlund’ or running their fantasies of being pre-war socialists signing up for the International Brigades.

Fuck off the lot of you.

😅 you make some valid points.

That's very racist and xenophobic in and of itself - you're no better. You've lowered yourself with that.

Touché 🤣

I won’t be getting involved but I support everyone who does. I really like this photo of an anti-immigration rally last year where the anti-anti-immigration protesters massively outnumbered the original protestors. People have been out at night taking down the England flags near me. I can’t work out whether people are truly hateful or just don’t have two brain cells to rub together (basing this on Facebook posts from local people who seem to be the type to not understand why straight pride isn’t a thing). I’m not one for protests or rallies but I might invest in some good quality white spray paint for my local roundabouts

Forgot the bloody photo 🤦‍♀️

Did you also vote for Labour because they promised to take back control of our borders and to "smash the gangs as part of their manifesto?

Straight out of Trump's playbook!

Touchy tsk.

No. Because I’m not fixated on a relatively small number of asylum seekers. But you knew that anyway and were just being provocative.

For one - no, Norman Long did not say or write that.

Norman Thomas (a socialist) once said that "Fascism is coming to the United States most probably, but it will not come under that name". An article claimed that Huey Long quoted Thomas, and added "Of course we'll have it, we'll have it under the guise of anti-fascism" but, despite attempts to verify the quote, it doesn't appear anywhere in his writings or speeches. Incidentally, Long himself was something of an authoritarian.

Dubious quote aside, "Fascism" is a far-right political ideology, rooted in ultranationalism. It's defining features are an authoritarian, dictatorial leader, militarism, autocracy, and belief in a natural social hierarchy. It is anti-socialism, anti-liberalism, anti-multicuralism and anti-democracy.

Your post has little to do with Fascism save, perhaps, for political violence (perpetrated by Antifa). Of course, Antifa are nothing to do with any government so, even if they are perpetuating widespread political violence, they cannot be fascists (in fact, many Antifa activists are anarchists). Although I'm referring to Antifa as if they are an organization, they're not even that, just random assortments of people, without any leadership or structure. There's also extremely limited accounts of "Antifa" engaging in violence in the UK, particularly in comparison to right wing groups.

And none of the "free speech" stuff you quoted is relevant either. Not least because, unless its the government who are "de-platforming" or "cancelling", it is not suppression of free speech.

(And, before people start bleating about Lucy Connolly, she was convicted under a law passed by Margret Thatcher, her cases was handled by the court system and she pled guilty).

The idea that "anti-fascits are the real fascists" is a nonsense, right wing meme, usually supported by dubious quotes and which betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what "fascism" even means as a political ideology.

All to say, your post is a heap of shite.

Serpentstooth · Today 15:49

There's a lot of it about isn't there? Poor fools, won't learn from history.

Which side are you pointing this at?
Because TBF neither side appears to be taking this on board.

No issue with people like that at all. I’m all for protests and have attended a few myself over the years.
Some like SWP and Antifa have no interest in peaceful protest and actively trying to change things. They are selfish, thugs, who just want to cause trouble under the guise of ‘social justice’.

But that explanation has nothing to do with the present day.

I have been accused of being a fascist by posters. Is it too much to ask what posters consider a fascist to be?

I am none of those things.

Also in the manifesto was getting rid of the people who organise the boats, and even now the PM is repeating that he is determined to stop the boats, and determined to close the hotels for migrants down.

I am accused by posters of being fascist, yet there is a reluctance to say what they mean by that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but they should say why they say such things.

I owe my life to immigrants, but they are legally entitled to work in Britain, and they say that they don't want the illegal boat people because they get tarred with the same brush. My carer of six years, recently diagnosed with terminal cancer is afraid of the boat people.

It has nothing to do with race or religion. It is the fact that migrants are coming here wanting to live in housing they have not worked to build, communities they have had no part in creating, and health care they had made no contribution to.

Landlords are evicting tenants of long standing because they have been offered more rent for HMOs. Perhaps no one close to you have been given notice. People living near hotels cannot allow their girls out because they are approached by men.

They are not British nationals (who come in all sizes, colours and creeds). They have not sworn allegiance to the Crown, they have not promised to keep the laws of the country and think they can do what they like. Not wanting illegal people we know nothing about, who are disrupting our lives until we cannot let our children out of our sight, is not being a fascist. The government are as keen to get rid of them as any opposition. They cannot work out how to do that. Only this week the PM has said the ECHR membership needs to be repealed. He just doesn't know how to do that.

To attribute right wing fascism to people who are concerned about the effect of strangers on their environment is foolish in the extreme. It blinds people to know just what fascism is. There are enough different ideas about what is considered fascism to fill the ocean, and probably none are right, because we do not live in the era where the word was coined first. Life has changed.

Now, whatever side a group of people are on, the opposite call them fascist. It is farcical.

And still no one can explain what fascism is today. All they can do is quote from history what fascism was between the Great War end and WW2 end. The word is bandied about and no one can describe what they mean by fascism today.

"It is the fact that migrants are coming here wanting to live in housing they have not worked to build..."

Did you build your house?

"communities they have had no part in creating..."

Most of the protesters are the exact opposite of what anyone would want in any community!

"and health care they had made no contribution to..."

You only have to look at these protesters to see that very few of them are anywhere near net contributors, if indeed they pay any tax at all. They are exactly the type of people who are the greatest drain on the health service - poor diets, overweight, smokers, drinkers, poor education attainment.

"Landlords are evicting tenants of long standing because they have been offered more rent for HMOs"

Get off GB News.

"People living near hotels cannot allow their girls out because they are approached by men...."

FFS. Get off GB News.

"They have not sworn allegiance to the Crown..."

Where to even begin with this....

No I don't think the anti-immigration lot are fascist, @llizzie . I do think the they are a national embarrassment though and their behaviour undermines any valid point they may have.

No doubt you will now call me 'far left'. Well I can assure you I'm not particularly 'left' at all.

This is from a French news source. I mean, look at the utter state of these people. They do not represent Britain. It's embarrassing.

Apologies, I don't think MN will allow photos from newspapers, but sadly, we all know the image of Britain I am referring to - overweight men with beer bellies hanging out, St George's Cross on their faces or T-shirts; and women who are in just as much of a tragic state.

@smallpinecone That’s a false equivalence. Colonialism was not “cultural change,” it was violent domination, resource extraction, and coercion. People under empire didn’t move freely into Britain’s orbit — they were conquered, exploited, and often massacred.

Immigration into Britain today is the opposite dynamic. People come here through legal processes, through labour agreements, through refugee protections, or through family ties — not at gunpoint. And unlike colonial subjects, they arrive into a society that is formally free and democratic, with the ability to contribute and participate.

So yes: cultural change is not destruction.

But equating the violent imposition of empire with the peaceful coexistence of communities in a modern democracy is not an argument against immigration — it’s actually an argument against the very abuses of power you’re sarcastically trying to excuse.

@Jumpingthruhoops @JollyUmberDeer

Costume jibes and “bravery tests” aren’t arguments — they’re distractions. The issue isn’t whether someone personally takes in a refugee, or whether you find an outfit smug. The issue is how Britain chooses to handle migration and asylum fairly and lawfully.

Wanting humane, managed immigration policies isn’t “open borders.” It’s the opposite: it’s about systems that work, not scapegoating. Britain already has immigration controls — visa rules, asylum processes, deportation powers. Pretending we live in some borderless free-for-all is rhetoric, not reality.

And immigration and asylum aren’t solved by private charity. No one asks NHS supporters to perform surgery in their living room, or policing supporters to go arrest burglars. We fund collective systems because they’re too big for individuals to manage. Britain signed up to international refugee protections after WWII for exactly this reason: responsibility is shared across society, not dumped onto individuals.

As for fascism — history shows it rarely announces itself with armbands. It arrives first as “concerned patriots” like you two, claiming to defend ordinary people, then builds politics on exclusion and intimidation. That’s why calling it out early isn’t hysteria; it’s vigilance.

@Menopausalsourpuss Oh dear indeed — but not for the reason you think. Throwing insults (“blithering,” “uneducated far leftist”) doesn’t strengthen your point, it just shows you’re rattled. Let’s stick to facts.

On Cable Street: the history is very clear. Working-class Jewish and Irish communities, supported by trade unions and left groups, stopped Oswald Mosley’s fascists marching through the East End in 1936. To claim the “left are the real fascists” is a complete rewrite of history.

On per capita crime rates: Yes, of course proportions matter. But cherry-picking certain groups (e.g. Afghans or Eritreans) to paint them as uniquely dangerous ignores two big points:

1. The majority of child sexual abuse in the UK is committed by white British men, not migrants. That’s established by NSPCC and Home Office data.
2. When you pull out “per capita” figures, you’re dealing with tiny sample sizes — a handful of cases in a small community can look statistically exaggerated, but that doesn’t mean the whole group has a higher “propensity” to commit crimes. That’s a misuse of statistics to justify prejudice.

On “culture not race”: That’s still scapegoating. Culture is complex and dynamic, not a criminal gene. Blaming “Afghan culture” or “Eritrean culture” for sexual crimes is no different than blaming “British culture” for the fact most child abusers here are white men. It’s a lazy, prejudiced shortcut.

And on Jewish women and marches: antisemitism is real and should be taken seriously wherever it occurs, just ask my Jewish aunt and cousins who take it in turns to keep watch at their synagogue due to repeated attacks. But it’s dishonest to use that concern only to attack the left, while defending far-right movements that have a long track record of antisemitic conspiracy theories.

So if we’re talking education: the data, the history, and the definitions are all against you. What’s happening here is classic scapegoating dressed up as statistical sophistication. It doesn’t hold.

You do love a racist comment, don't you? Nothing as horrible as an 'anti racist' match.... They marched in my town on Sunday and shouted abuse to children and local people. Lovely bunch.