To think that paying for airplane seats has broken air travel for families?

[raggedymum]

I just get so stressed when I see anything about plane seat issues - everyone is all "you should pay" but it doesn't take into account all the things that can go wrong, and there is now zero compassion or willingness to shift from other passengers. And somewhat reasonably, as they have paid for their seats!

I'm still traumatised from 6-leg (3 each way) flight last year with DH and then-10yo DD, where despite paying close to £1K to select seats (for very tall DH to get extra legroom and make sure the family was sat together), we sat together on only 1 of the 6 legs. First leg was fine. Second leg - long haul - 2 of the 3 seats we had booked were literally broken and NO ONE could sit there. It took ages for the flight attendants to find anyone willing to move to allow me and DD to sit next to each other for the 8-hour flight. DD (probably ND, we're looking into it), not having flown since she was 4 before the pandemic, was in tears and terrified. At least DH got his extra legroom in the non-broken original seat. Then, that flight encountered weather and we missed the connection. So obviously we didn't have the seats we had paid for on the flight that left before we got off the plane. Again, massive difficulty to find anywhere to get even two seats together. I managed to get behind DD (aisle seats - yet the middles next to us didn't want to move to an aisle to allow us to sit together - I have actually seen threads from people explaining that they chose such on purpose...). Return journey they had overbooked the plane and printed boarding passes with our seats for multiple people. Again, lots of angst but we got DD and me next to each other (and DD absolutely in a panic remembering the problems on the flight over, and me not so far behind). Weather again, and despite actually making the connection, we got there so late they had removed our seats from the system and put other people in them. This time DH was crunched in a regular seat and we did manage to get me and DD together in some middle seats. Final leg the plane was a different type than planned, so at least nobody had seats they had booked, although people still insisted on their seat if they existed in this plane. Again, couldn't get three together and lots of difficulty over arranging for me and DD together. Didn't help that DD was a very tall 10yo (see tall DH...) and people seemed to think she was a stroppy teen and not a panicking possibly-ND 10yo at the end of a very long series of flights.

I'm grateful that I managed to get next to DD on all but one of the legs, but it was so incredibly stressful that I have a panic response at the thought of flying long-haul again, making me really not want to visit family overseas anytime soon...

I completely understand that people don't want to give up seats they may have paid £100+ for. But the fact that everybody pays for very specific seats now means that the gate staff can't shift people who haven't yet checked in around (while keeping groups together) like they used to, to help sort out groups broken up for various reasons. And there is no sympathy because "you should have paid" even when you DID pay (a lot!).

I wonder if instead of picking specific seats, you could pay for "3 seats together with extra legroom", "an aisle seat in cheap economy", etc. I guess that would be much harder for the airlines to sort and figure out if they even could sell that combination, instead of just showing the little maps you select from.

I think you can have a preference about where you sit and not really want to move (for example because you have chosen an aisle seat at no extra cost because it was included in your ticket price) but suck it up and move because a member of the cabin crew is telling you that this mother and her child need to sit together and the plane won't take off until everyone is seated, or you can be ideologically wedded to the idea of sitting in your specific seat because you have paid an arm and a leg to choose that specific seat so you don't see why anyone should be able to tell you to move, particularly when they can't guarantee you'll get that money back.

In both cases you don't really want to move, but in the former case you can probably be persuaded, whereas in the latter case many people would dig their heels in and stubbornly refuse to move unless cabin crew were actually threatening to kick them off the flight.

If you'd been seated with your daughter for free, would you have moved for someone else who wanted your seat? No.

I would, as long as I could be seated with my daughter. So I wouldn't have minded moving forward or back, from aisle/middle to middle/window, etc. Actually, as a teen I was traveling transatlantic with a friend and I swapped seats with a poor fellow who didn't even ask us - he must have been close to 7 feet tall and was scrunched into that very back row that has even less room and doesn't recline. He just looked so miserable. Sitting with my friend on my first transatlantic flight wasn't worth leaving him there. And this was back when no one paid for seats - I'm surprised the flight attendants didn't attempt to help him out! Maybe they would have if we hadn't swapped.

You can't really judge the entire system based on one bad experience.

I've literally never had an issue with seats and I've flown multiple times a month for years. By that metric problems must never happen.

Exactly
I doubt if people would ask my 6ft 3 bald and tattooed husband to move

but I’m sure they would ask me

depending on what seat I’ve got and if I paid a lot for it I’m not moving
but I’m happy to keep an eye on any lone child that’s sat next to me

Not read whole thread but was there a reason you booked 3 legs for this holiday knowing that you have a very tall DH and a n anxious child - wouldn't it have been easier to go somewhere else direct?

I don't see how paying for your seats contributed to this, they all would have happened anyways?

You took a panicky 10 yo suspected ND on a 6 leg long haul return journey when she hadn't flown since she was 4?!

I'm sorry about the problems you've had in your flights. You had bad luck with multiple problems, which often are not easy to resolve. My only advice, as an experienced long haul traveller, is to book with reputable companies, like Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Etihad etc. which may be more expensive but worth it. As an example, a couple of years ago we flew with Emirates from Sydney to Madrid, my seat was stuck and I was unable to open the meal tray, and we were upgraded to business. We were fortunate there were empty seats in business but the crew were great.

She says they were visiting her in laws.

So there was no chance at all to book a short haul flight in 6 years?

Part of the problem appears to be that you are too sensitive. You seem to have been overly concerned with the criticism of people around you.

Anyone yelling "You should have paid!" at my child and I in this situation would have got short shrift. Something along the lines of "We did pay. Now butt out of what doesn't concern you and bog off, you tosser!"

And the airline staff would have got "This is your problem. Now sort it out!" said in a loud tone that the whole cabin could hear.

Sometimes you've got to stop giving a fuck about what people around you think. Although we should all make an effort to show basic consideration to others, ultimately their opinions are irrelevant.

Ok just saw you were visiting ILs. Could you fly to a major airport direct and drive the rest of the way - it's quite the norm in the US, we used to fly to Toronto to visit family in Michigan, they used to drive 5 hours to collect us!

I've seen a few people wearing the sunflower lanyards at airports this summer, not sure how you get them but would be worth investigating.

What for?

Families should remember that its single people who are paying towards all their subs and handouts but getting very little back in exchange. Thats how I see it.

Visiting in-laws. No other way to get there! We could have had 4 legs if PIL didn't drive 3 hours to get us. There used to be 2-leg flights but direct from London/major European hubs to a 3-5 hour drive from in-laws don't exist anymore. I suppose we could have taken the train to London, but would want to plan an overnight to make sure we didn't miss the flight. And I didn't realise it was going to be so horrible! Next time maybe we would plan on a night in London.

I read this thinking who the hell were you flying with and how was it such a mess? Then realised you were flying to the US. US flights are a shit show.

So their panicky DD can get used to flying before dragging her around the world if they knew the trip was a possibility.

Or just drag a ND child on the most stressful possible journey and hope for the best.

Yeah, maybe it's just about changing the mindset to include that extra charge (if you need it).

I have to admit I find it quite irritating as you go through the process and the 'extras' keep piling on, it feels like death by a thousand cuts... that's probably just me being grumpy though 😂

3 different flights. That's your problem. All it takes is for one thing to go wrong and it all goes to shit.

I feel for you, we live abroad too. But I would always choose an extra couple of hours of driving and overnight hotel in London than relying on a connecting regional flight. That's just asking for trouble, especially in summer and winter.

But after quietly explaining this to the flight attendant, would you have then yelled at a mother and panicking child and glared at them every time you passed the rest of the flight? (okay, maybe the panicking child didn't help matters... I will look into this sunflower lanyard thing)

I'm completely with people not being able to move for undisclosed reasons. Being aggressive and shouting and standing up but only to lean around the querying flight attendant to get closer to the tall child's face and yell in it - no, I don't see that being justifiable.

Also, I have mobility difficulties and have declined to move travelling alone when asked - but I simply say to the flight attendant, sorry, I can't sit in the exit row as I have mobility difficulties. And they go on to ask someone else, and I don't yell at the family.

there is now zero compassion or willingness to shift from other passengers.

Unfortunately, this is so. It's been noticeable how often, when travelling alone rather than with family, it's been assumed I could be shunted around like cattle to accommodate others' failure to book. It's also noticeable that the CF passengers tend to make a beeline for the lone female.

I need an aisle seat as a necessity, not just a preference. People who wanted that seat should have booked rather than expecting me to pay for that service.

Compassion works two ways, I'm afraid. My default answer is now a resolute 'no'.

I think that is an absolutely bonkers suggestion.

My children have never been on a plane because I find the very idea of it more hassle than it's worth and we made a decision as a family not to bother until our children were a bit older and we really wanted to go somewhere you can't get to any other way. We haven't been on holiday anywhere further than you can drive since they were born. Next year we plan to take them on their first ever flight, which is long haul.

A neuro-divergent child is not going to become a confident, seasoned traveller who is happy to sit away from her parents on a flight at the age of 10 simply by having taken a couple of short haul practice flights. And I wouldn't want my (neuro-typical, as far as I know) children sitting apart from me on a plane at the age of 10 anyway.

All your suggestion would achieve is worsening the family's carbon footprint by taking unnecessary flights for no particular reason.

Well, NOW we suspect she's ND. This experience was one of the big triggers! Also, it appears puberty might bring out more traits? For a while I thought it was just puberty but it seems more extreme than other friends report.

I do think you got spectacularly unlucky. It sounds a bruising experience.

What was the problem with the middle seats? Were you asking couples to split up?

I think you're right to blame the system not the individuals. I don't think it's selfishness, there is a sense that if you give up what you've paid for, you've been stung, made a fool of by the company who have pocketed your cash and given you thin air in return. And unless you really understand that the customer asking you DID pay for their seat, you might feel that customer is getting one over on you too. It feels like a zero sum game with a winner and a loser. It's a bit more complex than them being selfish or ungenerous.

I don't think vouchers for a future trip would cut it, or even promises that they can call customer services for a refund. Getting through to customer services, spending hours on hold, potentially ending up in the wrong automated system etc is a complete PITA. They'd really need to offer reliable, credible refunds to people prepared to swap and this whole thing would go away. They could do this by giving you a code you could use on the app you have probably already downloaded. But they don't, because it would eat into profits (which TBF can be quite tight.)

Mostly, though, you do get the seats you have paid for. You even saw this - on at least 5 of those aircraft, I bet nearly everyone on the flight did get their correct seat. It just feels very different.

So there is another valid argument. As a single person my carben footprint is a lot lower than those who "chose" a family lifestyle which I (and people like me) heavily subsidise. So that makes me even less likely to agree to move once Ive settled myself. A little more humility and gratitude from families might serve to oil the wheels.