To think that paying for airplane seats has broken air travel for families?

[raggedymum]

I just get so stressed when I see anything about plane seat issues - everyone is all "you should pay" but it doesn't take into account all the things that can go wrong, and there is now zero compassion or willingness to shift from other passengers. And somewhat reasonably, as they have paid for their seats!

I'm still traumatised from 6-leg (3 each way) flight last year with DH and then-10yo DD, where despite paying close to £1K to select seats (for very tall DH to get extra legroom and make sure the family was sat together), we sat together on only 1 of the 6 legs. First leg was fine. Second leg - long haul - 2 of the 3 seats we had booked were literally broken and NO ONE could sit there. It took ages for the flight attendants to find anyone willing to move to allow me and DD to sit next to each other for the 8-hour flight. DD (probably ND, we're looking into it), not having flown since she was 4 before the pandemic, was in tears and terrified. At least DH got his extra legroom in the non-broken original seat. Then, that flight encountered weather and we missed the connection. So obviously we didn't have the seats we had paid for on the flight that left before we got off the plane. Again, massive difficulty to find anywhere to get even two seats together. I managed to get behind DD (aisle seats - yet the middles next to us didn't want to move to an aisle to allow us to sit together - I have actually seen threads from people explaining that they chose such on purpose...). Return journey they had overbooked the plane and printed boarding passes with our seats for multiple people. Again, lots of angst but we got DD and me next to each other (and DD absolutely in a panic remembering the problems on the flight over, and me not so far behind). Weather again, and despite actually making the connection, we got there so late they had removed our seats from the system and put other people in them. This time DH was crunched in a regular seat and we did manage to get me and DD together in some middle seats. Final leg the plane was a different type than planned, so at least nobody had seats they had booked, although people still insisted on their seat if they existed in this plane. Again, couldn't get three together and lots of difficulty over arranging for me and DD together. Didn't help that DD was a very tall 10yo (see tall DH...) and people seemed to think she was a stroppy teen and not a panicking possibly-ND 10yo at the end of a very long series of flights.

I'm grateful that I managed to get next to DD on all but one of the legs, but it was so incredibly stressful that I have a panic response at the thought of flying long-haul again, making me really not want to visit family overseas anytime soon...

I completely understand that people don't want to give up seats they may have paid £100+ for. But the fact that everybody pays for very specific seats now means that the gate staff can't shift people who haven't yet checked in around (while keeping groups together) like they used to, to help sort out groups broken up for various reasons. And there is no sympathy because "you should have paid" even when you DID pay (a lot!).

I wonder if instead of picking specific seats, you could pay for "3 seats together with extra legroom", "an aisle seat in cheap economy", etc. I guess that would be much harder for the airlines to sort and figure out if they even could sell that combination, instead of just showing the little maps you select from.

If it wasn't possible to book seats, I wouldn't be able to fly in economy, or in Europe at all. I doubt I'm the only one. I'm pretty claustrophobic so need a front row aisle, and in Europe even in business I wouldn't be able to guarantee that if I couldn't book a seat. I'd actually be quite unhappy if I was asked to move as I'd feel I'd have to explain why little 5ft3 me needs so much legroom, or why no I don't want to swap for a superior window seat. And no doubt I'd feel like I was being glared at the whole flight for being difficult. I do think though that it shouldn't be allowed that a family can board a flight without having booked enough seats to make sure all under 12s are next to an adult, whether there's a charge or not.

I think I'd prefer if a cost remains though as it might become much harder for those people who do need specific seats to get them, and also those people who don't care where they sit are presumably the ones who are going to be happy moving if needed, so it seems appropriate they get a discount for taking that risk. Maybe the flight crew need a list of who's booked and who hasn't, and if they haven't they have to move wherever they're told. And if they have paid but still absolutely have to move, they should have the seat cost refunded plus some compensation.

Oh, fascinating. I'm realising people think WE asked people to move seats. It didn't even occur to me this would be my job - it was the airlines fault so I figured it was the airline who should fix it. All the requests were by flight attendants, with us standing nearby (not having any seats) but people still yelled at us. Although I guess flight attendant do still focus in on lone female travellers more than anyone else, given the angry response received, I can see them trying to aim for someone who looked like they would give them less grief.

Oh, that's a good idea! It really got me that the people who were GIVEN our booked and paid-for seats after we got there late (due to the previous airplane being delayed) refused to move. Clearly they hadn't paid for those specific seats. But this was in the US where I was staring to feel like everyone was perpetually angry...

@raggedymum I am going to post on here exactly what I put on the thread that might have inspired this thread:
If you want to take control of this for the return leg, then put £100 cash x 2 in your pocket and offer it each person/couple that you want to move.
That will pay back the cost of the seats they have reserved plus give a little incentive. That puts the power in your hands and away from your husband.
I have had the £100 given to me in the past and I have also carried it when we had to book emergency last minute tickets.
It works in both directions.

Wow, the entitlement of people living close enough to London to "just fly direct" and "go somewhere else".

Three legs is pretty normal if you need to get from point A to point B, not just picking your holidays from the agency list.

I agree with the OP.
People paying for specific seats makes it much harder for the crew on the plane to work around unexpected situations.
Yes, it works fine for charter style flights, when everyone goes to the same destination, but it isn't flexible enough for real world situations.

At the same time, it is something the airlines decided to do, so the best reaction is pushing any subsequent problems back on them as much as possible.

I HATE flying in the US.

I didn't even get offered a drink or a sandwich after being downgraded from business to economy and having to run for the flight (so not having time to get anything to eat at the airport).

And then getting to Atlanta, having to transfer my own luggage onto my connecting flight because they're apparently the only country in the world that can't figure out how to do this, having to politely answer the immigration official's fucking stupid questions about why I was in the US and how long I was staying (look at my ticket, dipshit, it's a 4 hour layover and believe me I do not want to be in your godforsaken hole of a country even for that long!) and then getting to the lounge to discover that the drinks there weren't even free.

I literally will only go to the US if being paid to do so.

Simple answer: UK holidays. Holidays don't have to be hot and sunny.
Holidays can be adventures to places you've not been before.

Shouting and agression- particularly at a child- is never ok. I am going to hazard that all travellers into the US are stressed and angry right now because of all the myrisd reasons.

FFS RTFT.

And just... never see your parents/grandparents again?

Great, that sounds proportional.

You would refuse to move based on your lower carbon footprint? That doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, that's really poor. It does sound like you had terrible bad luck plus shocking customer service. They definitely should have been made to move, I really hope you complained. What airline was it? I'd like to know so I can add them to my no-fly list!

I agree with you.

The idea that people travelling together should pay to sit together is outrageous and should (as it always was) be included in the cost. Even more outrageous is that it costs even more to choose and book seats in advance in Premium Economy and Business in some airlines (BA, now your head in shame).

Will they bring this system in restaurants next? ‘Ahh, I see you have booked for 4 people, we can put two of you with that couple over there, the other two can squeeze on to the ends of those two families dining over there’.

AIt is penny wise, pound foolish, and you can see people voting with their feet. Apparently people will pay about £500 more to fly Virgin or Singapore Premium Economy over BA.

hi OP

i am disabled. They’ve never yet given me a random seat.

you mention that you have mobility difficulties.

your daughter also seems more than normally anxious.

get her a sunflower lanyard it is recognised in most airports. It will help significantly.

it is also possible to book passenger assistance. This is not just for people in wheelchairs (says she as one) but is also for for example people with autism or severe anxiety.

passengers assistance will get you through a much quieter lane for security and passports and they will Also help talk you through the process (if you have a common language although most airports have staff with at least a few words or English).

this seems a case where passenger assistance would be useful.

Or just don't fly.

Better for the planet, huge amounts of stress avoided.

It is not essential for a happy, fulfilled life, or even for a fun holiday.

Okay. I wonder if we could limit US flights as much as possible? I do fly for work, not a lot, but some, but only in the UK and Europe. And I'd never encountered anything like this. I also have never paid extra for a seat for work (except that one time the system forced me to pay for an exit row and I was able to get it undone on phone), as I was traveling alone and didn't care.

We did look at taking trains from the East Coast to my in-laws this year. It's like a 5 day journey and you have to spend 1-2 nights in a major city or two, but actually I thought it could be fun. We could see some of the US countryside and a few big cities. My DD did not like the idea of 90hrs+ on a train. Although maybe I can still convince her - I do think it would be fun! You can book out a whole bedroom for the family. It was much better than the last time I looked with connections in the daytime. I once checked the only journeys put you into Atlanta at 2am and leaving 28 hours later at 6am. Didn't really want to be wandering downtown Atlanta in the middle of the night to go to/from a hotel...

It is kind of essential for seeing your family members who live on another continent though.

There was a time when you paid for everything whether you wanted it or not (seat/food/hold baggage). Flights were relatively more expensive then, but everything that is now considered ‘extra’ is charged separately so you notice it more. I think the airlines have taken those things out to make the flights look cheaper, which I’d course they aren’t when you add the extras back in.

Personally I’d always pay for seats if travelling with children who wouldn’t be ok sat on their own. I also pay for seats for me and DH (no children with us now), ever since a flight was overbooked and those without seats booked were bounced. That was some time ago, not sure how often it happens these days

Can you say where your in laws live?

I think this is it. It makes the seats look cheaper but they're not really, people already feel resentful about being forced to pay extra for things they don't think they should have to pay extra for, and having paid extra they're not willing to give up what they've paid for without a fight.

Perhaps the answer is to add seat selection back into the cost of the ticket, but offer discounted tickets for people who are willing to be sat literally anywhere the cabin crew need to put them. Those people can board last, with a boarding pass that doesn't have a seat number on it, and are just told where to go when they get on the plane. And then anyone with a regular ticket who needs to be moved from the seat they selected gets offered compensation equivalent to the discount they would have got for booking an "I don't care, put me anywhere" ticket.

Oh, interesting. I've been wondering about this. Low pressure seems to exacerbate my problems, and I've been wondering about booking some kind of assistance. But then feel like a bit of a fraud as I can walk fine most of the time and only sometimes need a walking stick (although that sometimes is now more and more after a flight!).

Yes, true

Yes, and the airline chose to make it your problem rather than address it at check in.

We have been stung with the change of aircraft too, but luckily they did resolve it at check in when I "advocated" quite forcefully that no my autistic, speech delayed 7 year old could not sit alone. I may have used the word "meltdown" quite a lot. But it was a transatlantic not internal American flight and a few years ago. I can easily imagine things have got more difficult. You asking other passengers to swap was never a reasonable way to resolve it. The airline has the power to do so and you don't.

Exactly this. Each child should always be sat by a parent for the safety of everyone on a flight. I no longer have small children and if the cost of this needs to be absorbed by all, so be it. In the event of an emergency having small kids sat with strangers increases danger for all.

@Newbutoldfather

The idea that people travelling together should pay to sit together is outrageous and should (as it always was) be included in the cost

I don't disagree to some extent but the problem is in the real world a couple might choose to allow themselves to be split if they can save, say £60 on the fare...

..and some airlines worked out they could attract passengers to fly with them, rather than traditional airlines, by offering such a facility.

A lot of these threads understandably end up as a pile on of the airlines but the reality is nearly half a century ago now, maybe more the marketers at the LoCos sussed out human nature and the attraction of unbundled fares...and I don't think there is any way back.