To think that paying for airplane seats has broken air travel for families?

[raggedymum]

I just get so stressed when I see anything about plane seat issues - everyone is all "you should pay" but it doesn't take into account all the things that can go wrong, and there is now zero compassion or willingness to shift from other passengers. And somewhat reasonably, as they have paid for their seats!

I'm still traumatised from 6-leg (3 each way) flight last year with DH and then-10yo DD, where despite paying close to £1K to select seats (for very tall DH to get extra legroom and make sure the family was sat together), we sat together on only 1 of the 6 legs. First leg was fine. Second leg - long haul - 2 of the 3 seats we had booked were literally broken and NO ONE could sit there. It took ages for the flight attendants to find anyone willing to move to allow me and DD to sit next to each other for the 8-hour flight. DD (probably ND, we're looking into it), not having flown since she was 4 before the pandemic, was in tears and terrified. At least DH got his extra legroom in the non-broken original seat. Then, that flight encountered weather and we missed the connection. So obviously we didn't have the seats we had paid for on the flight that left before we got off the plane. Again, massive difficulty to find anywhere to get even two seats together. I managed to get behind DD (aisle seats - yet the middles next to us didn't want to move to an aisle to allow us to sit together - I have actually seen threads from people explaining that they chose such on purpose...). Return journey they had overbooked the plane and printed boarding passes with our seats for multiple people. Again, lots of angst but we got DD and me next to each other (and DD absolutely in a panic remembering the problems on the flight over, and me not so far behind). Weather again, and despite actually making the connection, we got there so late they had removed our seats from the system and put other people in them. This time DH was crunched in a regular seat and we did manage to get me and DD together in some middle seats. Final leg the plane was a different type than planned, so at least nobody had seats they had booked, although people still insisted on their seat if they existed in this plane. Again, couldn't get three together and lots of difficulty over arranging for me and DD together. Didn't help that DD was a very tall 10yo (see tall DH...) and people seemed to think she was a stroppy teen and not a panicking possibly-ND 10yo at the end of a very long series of flights.

I'm grateful that I managed to get next to DD on all but one of the legs, but it was so incredibly stressful that I have a panic response at the thought of flying long-haul again, making me really not want to visit family overseas anytime soon...

I completely understand that people don't want to give up seats they may have paid £100+ for. But the fact that everybody pays for very specific seats now means that the gate staff can't shift people who haven't yet checked in around (while keeping groups together) like they used to, to help sort out groups broken up for various reasons. And there is no sympathy because "you should have paid" even when you DID pay (a lot!).

I wonder if instead of picking specific seats, you could pay for "3 seats together with extra legroom", "an aisle seat in cheap economy", etc. I guess that would be much harder for the airlines to sort and figure out if they even could sell that combination, instead of just showing the little maps you select from.

Well apparently they generally don't.

Which is rather a disincentive to pay for it, isn't it?

That's another good point! I know it's a really infrequent occurrence, but if they need to make sure only able bodied adults sit beside emergency exits and that no hand luggage is stored on the floor in those rows as a matter of course, then surely they should also ensure that their youngest passengers are seated next to the people who should be assisting them in an emergency?

Flying is a hell of a lot cheaper than it used to be so it’s hardly surprising you need to pay for seats. I’ve never had a problem with my paid for seat selection, aside from families who haven’t paid asking if I would move so they could sit together.

@GlasgowGal2014 I have only flown with ryanair since having DC. They make you book a seat if you have an under 12. Loads of the 'less desirable' rows are free. So for our holiday this year, DS 1 yr old sits on my lap, DS 3yr old got a free seat selection next to me, and I had to pay €8 to pick DHs seat to sit beside us.

This makes no sense because none of that happened because of paying to book seats. You did pay, and things still went wrong.

I just read a book published in 1935 where the passengers had assigned seats. It's hardly a recent phenomenon.

this year we just drove an hour to a holiday home :)

But can't get a ferry across the ocean. Hmm. How much DOES the Queen Mary 2 cost? The prices always seemed ridiculous (and the week to get there) but maybe not more than all the costs of seats and such. Although it would still be at least 2 flights in the US to get to ILs... (OMG, I've just checked a roundtrip to NY, it is less than we paid for our flights last year! maybe we could get ILs to come to NY...)

No, there is an economy-plus that has extra legroom. Several rows of it.

OP, once you have a diagnosis for your daughter book special assistance with the airline and ask them to allocate her a seat with one adult from the party next to her as a reasonable adjustment (most actually just put you all together). If it is disability related they won't charge, and they also normally get flagged on the system as such. This means your allocation is much less likely to get changed.

If an issue does arise it is then much easier for the flight crew to resolve it as they can insist people move. I have a disability that requires specific arrangements and a few times an issue has arisen and the cabin crew have just told people nicely they'll have to move seats. Only twice have they kicked off and both times they've been told they will be removed from the flight if they don't move because it is disability and therefore safety related. The moved sharpish.

If the flight is to or from the UK a sunflower lanyard for your daughter would help other people understand.

Oh and you can also request preboarding for free if boarding in the rush is too overwhelming because of disability.

The point is that she was £1000 out of pocket due to having paid for seats she didn't get to sit in, and other passengers wouldn't move due to also having paid for their seats.

If everyone got free seat selection then you wouldn't get families chancing it and hoping they'll be seated together or that someone will be willing to move, and if a family ended up separated because they booked their flight or checked in late in the day when the other seats had already been allocated, other passengers would be more willing to move because they wouldn't have paid through the nose to sit in that particular seat.

Sunflower lanyard gets priority boarding?

It's an absolute pain. I like the pp suggestion that cabin crew have vouchers they can hand out when it's the airline's fault that things haven't worked out. Also regardless of whether they have paid extra or not to book specific seats, children really need to be seated with one of the adults they are traveling with. If people don't care where on the plane they're sitting why should they pay extra? It's not about keeping someone company. Frankly any flight with my DC is much harder work than a flight when I am sitting on my own. But if there's any kind of an emergency there is no way on this earth I am leaving a plane until I have made sure that my DC is safe and that might result in a delay for other people. I know that's very unlikely but the other much more likely scenario is that my child could be a pain in the backside to sit next to. He is ND and needs frequent reminders about awareness of personal space for example.

Yes, but it was because other people paid that they refused to make any changes and got angry with us. If no one had paid no one would be yelling at us "you should have paid!" with me going "we did pay! X went wrong!" and them saying it's not THEIR fault X went wrong and so we should have paid. We did pay, ARGH! People could not seem to understand that something going wrong was not the same as someone not paying. All with a panicking 10yo, which I completely understand did not help anyone's attitude.

People can refunds. When they've had to move people to accommodate me for disability reasons I've heard the cabin crew says that they can contact customer service for a refund.

Those things would all have happened if you could choose seats for free. People in the middle seats still wouldn't have wanted to move to window/aisle, and other groups still wouldn't have wanted to split up to accommodate the OP.

Yep,.

The brutal reason is that sadly when the generic "you", the general public, were given the choice of paying more for everything bundled into a blanket fare with a legacy old deal airline or OTOH the appearance of a lower price with a LoCo who had unbundled the public went with the LoCo model in big numbers.

The legacy airlines, certainly in Europe saw customers migrate to the LoCos where they could and so the legacies had to adapt or die.

Oh, fascinating. We were told that things outside their control could not be accommodated. (I think a broken seat WAS in their control, but hey...)

You had a massively rough ride with your recent long haul flight. I travel mid to long haul several times a year and have not had any issues. I always book and pay for an aisle seat if travelling solo. On the odd occasion I have moved if it’s like for like.

They paid because they wanted a certain type of seat. If they'd got it for free, they still would have wanted that seat.

If you'd been seated with your daughter for free, would you have moved for someone else who wanted your seat? No.

I do take your point, but on the whole I think it is easier to tell someone to move if they haven't paid extra to choose their seat. This system encourages people to be emotionally attached to their particular seat number as a matter of principle, which is not a good thing when you're cabin crew trying to get everyone safely in their seats so you're ready to take off.

It’s not attitude with me. It’s a very specific reason that I need an aisle seat so I pay for it. I’m not declaring my private medical reason to a stranger either so no I won’t move. Not unless it’s a free upgrade to business or first class.

I think a three part trip will always be horrendous. Try splitting it so you get an overnight stay. Its just how bad air travel is.

I just don't think it does. People who don't care where they sit don't pay, and because they don't care where they sit they are more likely to move for someone else. People only pay if they want a certain kind of seat, meaning they would have the same attachment to it if they'd got it free.

But it wasn't about a certain TYPE of seat. It was THAT seat. So not moving a few rows up from aisle to aisle with the exact same leg room so that an aisle and middle free would then be together. Which is why I wondered if they could sell 'types' of seat (like on trains, like someone suggested). I guess the issue is with trains they don't have to make sure everyone has a seat. Whereas it could be a weird set of combinatorics to sell X-together economy-plus and 15 aisles anywhere and 23 windows economy-basic, etc, to make sure it actually fit on the plane.

I actually think the whole flying experience is now pretty broken to be honest. Ironically, the ONLY time I haven't felt this way about the whole mess was during covid when airports/flights weren't crammed with people, badly organised and chaotic.

Other than that, I find the whole thing so deeply unpleasant and traumatic that I am no longer willing to tolerate the chaos for the sake of a holiday abroad. The seat debacle is just another nail in the coffin for me.

If you can't afford first class (as I can't), it just isn't tolerable.

I agree that it’s a system that unfairly penalises families but having said that we fly as a family a reasonable amount and I have never paid for specific seats. And we have only been separated once on a flight, which was after my son turned 13 so fair enough and I had no issue sitting separately. But it might depend who you fly with. Low cost airlines are going to be much less accommodating than the larger airlines. We’re currently away and have taken 5 flights with one to go and no issue with seat allocation or needing to pay for seats together. I think you were very unlucky last time. But it does depend as well on the airline.