To think that paying for airplane seats has broken air travel for families?

[raggedymum]

I just get so stressed when I see anything about plane seat issues - everyone is all "you should pay" but it doesn't take into account all the things that can go wrong, and there is now zero compassion or willingness to shift from other passengers. And somewhat reasonably, as they have paid for their seats!

I'm still traumatised from 6-leg (3 each way) flight last year with DH and then-10yo DD, where despite paying close to £1K to select seats (for very tall DH to get extra legroom and make sure the family was sat together), we sat together on only 1 of the 6 legs. First leg was fine. Second leg - long haul - 2 of the 3 seats we had booked were literally broken and NO ONE could sit there. It took ages for the flight attendants to find anyone willing to move to allow me and DD to sit next to each other for the 8-hour flight. DD (probably ND, we're looking into it), not having flown since she was 4 before the pandemic, was in tears and terrified. At least DH got his extra legroom in the non-broken original seat. Then, that flight encountered weather and we missed the connection. So obviously we didn't have the seats we had paid for on the flight that left before we got off the plane. Again, massive difficulty to find anywhere to get even two seats together. I managed to get behind DD (aisle seats - yet the middles next to us didn't want to move to an aisle to allow us to sit together - I have actually seen threads from people explaining that they chose such on purpose...). Return journey they had overbooked the plane and printed boarding passes with our seats for multiple people. Again, lots of angst but we got DD and me next to each other (and DD absolutely in a panic remembering the problems on the flight over, and me not so far behind). Weather again, and despite actually making the connection, we got there so late they had removed our seats from the system and put other people in them. This time DH was crunched in a regular seat and we did manage to get me and DD together in some middle seats. Final leg the plane was a different type than planned, so at least nobody had seats they had booked, although people still insisted on their seat if they existed in this plane. Again, couldn't get three together and lots of difficulty over arranging for me and DD together. Didn't help that DD was a very tall 10yo (see tall DH...) and people seemed to think she was a stroppy teen and not a panicking possibly-ND 10yo at the end of a very long series of flights.

I'm grateful that I managed to get next to DD on all but one of the legs, but it was so incredibly stressful that I have a panic response at the thought of flying long-haul again, making me really not want to visit family overseas anytime soon...

I completely understand that people don't want to give up seats they may have paid £100+ for. But the fact that everybody pays for very specific seats now means that the gate staff can't shift people who haven't yet checked in around (while keeping groups together) like they used to, to help sort out groups broken up for various reasons. And there is no sympathy because "you should have paid" even when you DID pay (a lot!).

I wonder if instead of picking specific seats, you could pay for "3 seats together with extra legroom", "an aisle seat in cheap economy", etc. I guess that would be much harder for the airlines to sort and figure out if they even could sell that combination, instead of just showing the little maps you select from.

I think however you need a middle ground word between "stressed" and "traumatised". Trauma usually involves fear of or actual bodily harm.

@drspouse any suggestions? I really did delete that word a few times but nothing I typed in felt right. I think it might help explain my response to DH if I wasn't looking like I was "overplaying" the whole thing. I suspect DD was actually scared of bodily harm - she was hugging me and crying and squatting down and trying hide behind me (hard, as she was taller than me! now she's much taller than me...) to get away from the angry people. But I didn't actually think anyone was going to harm us.

It was the order you checked in at the airport, working front to back.
Then the last people to check in were spread out if they had seats to fill... happened to us when I was hospitalised on holiday... I was released 2hrs before the plane left, they knew we were coming but couldn't anything about the seats until we were on the plane. Fortunately the people I had been sat next too didn't want the responsibility for the sick child just out of hospital when the FA told them so swapped with my mother and brother (we were 9&10)

I think you should look into getting a sunflower lanyard. I make way for any such traveller on the Tube. I know the Tube provides them.

We fly a lot and I don’t get this. Last holiday, was able to check in a month before departure. Logged on as soon as I could, refused all the options to pay and found we had all been seated together anyway. I’ve done this numerous times and so far, it has never backfired! Stopped paying to be seated together after we paid over the odds, only to fly on a practically empty aircraft (our Feb half term must have been a week earlier than some others?). How does this happen to people?

You had a very bad experience on your last trip op but if that had not happened and you had got the seats you had paid for I'm sure you would be equally unwilling to give them up for other people to sit together. You were very unlucky that the seats you had paid for were broken .You, just like other people who bought seats, spent money on those seats for very specific reasons. (talk husband, young daughter) and you wanted the seats you had paid for. That is true for everybody else who paid for particular seats as well. This only happened to DH and I once. We paid for extra leg room as husband 6ft 2 with disc problems. We looked like a nice likely couple to exchange for people wanting to sit together because she's back problems (quite serious) are not obvious. When we politely refused the requester was barely polite. I am at a complete loss to understand why his problem (unpaid for) should be a priority over my husbands problem (planned for and paid for in advance) The person stood about a while and it was clear that any pain my husband would have suffered (which from past experience continues into the holiday and beyond) was of absolutely no interest to him. I feel sorry for cabin crews who only want to get the flight underway but there is no way it is right for airlines to take money for seats then expect people to move for those who cynically chance not paying. It; s a product I've paid for like any other product, payment made in good faith to the airline.

YANBU OP.

I think separating children from their parents is a diabolical policy which endangers all passengers and needs to be banned at an industry-wide level.

It's also really unfair that this policy effectively makes children's tickets more expensive than adults' tickets.

They should just scrap the whole stupid idea and go back to including seat selection in the ticket price.

At the very least, airlines should have to refund the seat selection fee to any passenger who doesn't end up sitting in the seat they have paid for.

😂

I recently took a plane ride with my child (11)..
I suspect she might have ADHD. Does have some autistic traits. Not diagnosed.
Isn't familiar with planes.
She panicked inside the whole time through going through airport procedures from start to finish on airport there and again on airport back.
She pushed our little box too soon through the conveyor belt as we'd not put everything on yet. Easily sorted by doing another one but made her panic even more when she realised she'd done it wrong. She got us in the wrong queue on the way back cos she was panicking so much she wasn't thinking straight. Then she panicked when security took her labubu for an extra scan on the way back as she thought she'd lost it forever I think.
After this it really did cross my mind about how maybe the sunflower thing might be useful.

Agree about the sunflower lanyard, and flagging your DD at booking as someone who needs extra assistance. Even if she doesn't actually need the assistance because you're there, it would make her a priority for seat assignment etc. We've occasionally done the airport with DS in ear defenders and been waved through fast lines etc; the staff are very perceptive about that sort of thing.

I think you had a particularly bad experience because internal US airlines are like the wildwest for this sort of thing. There are far fewer passenger rights/compensations than in the UK/EU and overall, I think, poorer airport behaviour from passengers, airports themselves are awful, and more rudeness from staff (I say that as someone who has travelled a lot in the US and generally think their customer service is better).

I completely agree - that's why I think it's the paying for seats overall that's broken the system, not the individuals who don't want to move.

I did once encounter when flying alone for work and the only available seats were exit rows which I can't sit in due to having mobility difficulties. But apparently there are some "hidden" seats as when I phoned the airline after being forced to select an exit row seat upon purchase they were able to move me (and they refunded the extra money for the exit... it wouldn't let me just go on without selecting a seat! so at least that was reasonable)

Why dont they do it like train seats?

Flight prices (basic) are much lower than they used to be - well until recently! - so I just add in the seat costs as standard now.
If you aren’t fussed about where you sit on a flight, then obviously there’s no jeopardy for you and you don’t need to pay that extra charge.
We like to be in a certain section of the plane, we like window, middle and aisle seats together and to be some of the earliest served by the trolley service. They are our preferences, and I think it’s a positive that we can choose and pay for what we want.

It does sound really stressful and crap!

I think the reason that people have that attitude though is because whilst your issues are genuine we all have heard or seen or experienced ourselves people that did not pay for their seats just expecting others to accommodate them.

If there were no CFs who did it, then when a genuine occasion happened most people wouldn't mind.

Unless you go hand luggage only and don't care where you sit

They should just assign seats like they do on trains. Those who book together stay together, and you get to choose middle, window, aisle front or back, and extra space. Everything else should be the algorithm designating seat positions. We all have phones nowadays and seat assignment can be by app just prior to boarding. Then everyone should be happy and you don't need to inconvenience yourself by getting up for a stranger. Broken seats can be taken off the system too and passengers who miss flights can still be treated as human for your most favoured opinion (such as 'stay together' or 'window'). Would also help with queuing. "Queue 1 is now boarding..."
Passengers all just want a fair system.

Also I am always surprised how many people refuse to move when they are sat alone.

Because they are also people who may have paid for a specific seat for a specific reason? Because they are likely the ones who get asked to move on every flight because they are travelling alone and have had enough? Because they have a need or condition which you don’t know about and have planned for it accordingly? I could go on.

Single people get shafted enough with stuff without this as well, especially around travel. For what it’s worth I think airlines should seat children with parents by default and without charge. But they want to bleed you dry of every penny so this is the way it currently is.

Oh, that sounds so familiar... you expect there be just-past-toddler-issues with a 4yo, the last time we had flown. The chaos of a normally-together 10yo encountering a new environment was a surprise. They also took her aside for extra run-over with the hand scanner thing and wouldn't let a parent come too, and she was beside herself. Despite me standing literally 6 feet away. I kept saying "She's just 10, she's just 10", hoping the scary, serious americans would realise they had a child... Ugh. It was more than just the seats that made the trip horrible...

Would ferry be an option for your next holiday, and staying closer to home? I took the ferry with my two young kids (one autistic) this summer and found it brilliant, less waiting around and going through lots of different systems. None of the seat problems and we were free to walk around and go to shops etc

I know it has totally become the norm to book seats on flights and the prevailing view on Mumsnet is that if you want to sit beside your kids you should cough up, but having read the recent thread about small children having to sit by themselves between strangers I can't help but think there is a safeguarding element. Not just the stranger danger, but other risks such as choking, exposure to allergens etc, ability to fasten their own safety belt etc. And in the event of an evacuation are the strangers sitting next to them supposed to help fit their air masks and be responsible for helping them evacuate from the plane? Air carriers generally don't allow kids under 12-14 fly unaccompanied so I feel like if that's the case then children any younger than that should automatically be seated with a parent or guardian without having to pay extra.

Would ferry be an option for your next holiday, and staying closer to home? I took the ferry with my two young kids (one autistic) this summer and found it brilliant, less waiting around and going through lots of different systems. None of the seat problems and we were free to walk around and go to shops etc

In the event of an evacuation the parents are going to be heading for their kids, rather than the nearest exit. It's so dangerous.

Usually, the seats with the extra leg-room are next to the emergency exit and, as such, cannot be used by a child. I know as DH is very tall and we had this issue when our children (also tall) were minors.

That being the case, I cannot see how OP could have sat with her DH and DD in the extra leg-room seats..

It all sounds horrendous, for the OP and I sympathise. However, DH and I pay for our seats, I don't like flying, and I'm not sure that I would change seats for anybody.

Some airlines do put children with parents for free but then state that together can mean row infront etc.

We had it on a holiday where we couldn't buy seats as was a charter and despite arriving early tried to sit our then 5 year old on his own with DH behind. Thankfully the cabin crew didn't give the person the option (no seats could be booked) and got them to move very quickly.

How tall is your DH?

If you are unable, thorough no fault of your own, to occupy the seat you have paid for, the airline should refund it. No idea if they actually do, but if they’ve charged for a service they cannot provide, it feels reasonable that you should be refunded the price you paid to select the seats.