To have organised a 40th birthday party for me and my twin?

[loonyloo]

I've just had an argument with my lifelong friend about this.

I have a twin brother. We turned 40 a couple of weeks ago. I wanted a big party as it's a big milestone. I don't think that's unusual. I told my brother a few months ago that I wanted the party. He said that he didn't want a big fuss and wouldn't come.

I went ahead and organised one. His wife knew and said he'd come. The party came and he didn't show up. I'd assumed he would despite what he'd said. I was really embarrassed in front of all our extended family and friends and upset that he'd let me down. I really thought he'd come. He'd said he hadn't wanted a 21st either but I did, so my mum organised a big party for us. He was a bit grumpy about it, but he did come and enjoyed himself in the end.

I'd told my friend how upset I was about it but she didn't say very much. She can be like that though, she's a bit unfeeling. I saw her on Friday and we ended up having a disagreement about something else that escalated and the subject of the party came up. She said that I was in the wrong for throwing a party for me and my brother. She said if I wanted a party I should've thrown one for myself and not told everyone it was for both of us. She said it was an example of me "always, always having to have things your own fucking way" and that I was selfish.

I'm really upset. I don't think it's selfish of me to want to have a party and I don't see why I shouldn't have one just because my brother doesn't want one. I can't have one just for myself, everyone knows we're twins and it would look weird for me to have a birthday party without him. My friend was really rude today and needs to watch her temper. I'm a really kind person and I think it's not too much to ask for others to put themselves out for me sometimes, but I've been thinking about what my friend said and now I'm worried other people think I was selfish about the party.

You are saying you had good intentions. But why your intentions are more important than your brother’s wishes.

Are you the golden child? Family members calling him awkward and that it’s weird he didn’t come. This adds another dimension to why he didn’t want to come. Does your family think you are the normal one for being an extrovert and social and he is not?Some families have tendency to compare kids. I can imagine it’s even more for twins. Maybe your brother didn’t want his birthday in your shadow because you are sounding like main character energy.

@loonyloo

The argument is quite telling. You seem to
have issues with respecting other people’s boundaries / autonomy.

Your brother clearly said he didn't want a fuss and a party. You went ahead “to encourage him to be social”

Your friend said that she is not interested in joining this hobby. You continued to push and push and even bring in her mental health - what an overstep on your part.

Do you realise that other people are not you?

They are independent beings who are free to make their own choices whether it is about a party or a hobby.

I really think you are BVVVVU and overbearing. I can see why you are getting the reactions that you are getting.

Also the “special twin bond” card is not one size fits all. There are 6 sets of twins in my family and thats why I feel qualified to say that not all twins feel the need to do everything together or indeed feel that “magical bond” that no one else can understand.

I think you should be mindful of other people’s preferences and be respectful
of their right to make their own decisions.

OK, thanks for the clarification (unfortunately your previous post didn't explain this). Sadly, your DM's twin relationship sounds deeply unhealthy, although I would blame her parents (or whoever raised her and her twin) for that. Allowing such a codependency to develop to the extent that it has stunted their individual lives is, IMHO, extremely poor parenting and I actually feel rather sorry for your DM. (Having said that, I can see how her behaviour, as a result of her upbringing, must have been difficult for you to deal with all your life.)

YABU

If the boot was on the other foot and he didn't respect your wishes, I'm sure you'd be calling him out for being selfish.

Personally I hate being the centre of attention, so I totally understand how your twin brother feels on this one. Not everyone wants everything to be all about them like you do. Good for him for sticking to his guns and not coming. If you felt embarrassed by his absence, that was on you. He told you he didn't want a party and warned you he wouldn't come.

I'm with your friend on this one. From what you've told us, you really do need to have everything your own way. The fact you can't even see how unreasonable you were on this one is evidence of that. You're so blinded by what you want, that other people's feelings don't even come into it.

The issue with pushy is that they think they know better and after a while you just can’t take it and would not want to listen to pushy sibling/ friend because you realise they never listen to you.
It starts to feel that this pushy person thinks they are better than you as they know better. I have a ‘I am always right and I know better about everything sibling’ and who also think only their feelings, wishes matter and they should be the decision maker so maybe I am biased.

Op
cant you see that both your threads have been about you being upset about friends saying that you are all
about you.
I think you need to have a real think about your behaviour.

Your brother does not need encouraging to be sociable. He is forty years old, he can make his own decisions about socialising. He explicitly told you he did not want a party, and you tried to force him to have one anyway. Your behaviour was extremely selfish, however I do agree you weren’t intending to be selfish and thought you were doing a nice thing. The point you seem to have missed is that you and your brother are two separate people. You assume that he would want a party because you know that you would want a party. Your brother didn’t want a party and you rode roughshod over what he wanted on the assumption that you know what’s best for him. Can you really not see how out of order this is?! You owe him an apology.

I'm sorry but I agree with the majority here. It's not kind to ignore someone else's wishes and assume you know what's best for them. Inviting his friends to the party put him in a very awkward position, you were putting him under immense social pressure to do something that he'd clearly told you that he didn't want to do - either he had to give into your wishes or look bad to his friends.

Just read the older thread OP and if I have got things right you have said this was another friend who told you, you were being unreasonable at that time.

Appreciate that you thought you were doing a nice thing for your brother but he specifically stated he didn’t want a birthday party .
You do come across as very self absorbed and only interested in what you want or how something affects you and if two different friends have said this and a lot of people here have posted you really need to think about how everything doesn’t revolve around you.

Ok so I have not read it all but this is very odd behaviour. I say this as someone who is a triplet and had joint and separate parties. We are individuals and not a set! Everyone is allowed their opinion and he didn’t want a party, you have to respect that

I think you meant well, OP. I'm sorry it didn't work out.

A classic AIBU thread. 97% of respondents say YABU and OP tells us all we are wrong.

We are in the middle of something similar with MIL

DH is 40, MIL wants to celebrate, DH has been clear all along that he does not want a party, dinner etc but she's ignored him and went ahead and made arrangements
It's all blew up because he's told her to cancel the plans, he didn't and still doesn't want it and now she's in the huff

If she'd listened to him in the first place, all would be fine.

It's actually very similar. Friend said no, you tried to steamroller her into doing it because you "thought it would be good for her." Your brother said no, but you thought he would actually have a good time when he got there.

You need to stop imposing your ideas of what you think people will like on them and take no for an answer.

@Nedeyk Wow, so it's your DH's 40th birthday and his DM thinks she has the right to tell him how to celebrate it?! 🙄 How do these people get to be fully-grown adults with so little self-awareness? I hope she has a light-bult moment, cancels the arrangements and apologises to your DH. And I hope your DH gets to do what he wants on his birthday!

Completely agree. It’s a very unhealthy relationship and she does often replicate this with other people. Her parents thought it was cute and saw them as one person rather than an individual.

i suspect the OP has some of this about her

This.

Should there be a different message board, not AIBU, for:

'People irl are telling me I am in the wrong. Please can everyone online tell me I am right?'

It sounds like you are an extrovert and he is an introvert. As a fellow introvert, you need to understand that we do not need to be 'encouraged to come to events'. We are not unsociable - we just don't do sociable in the same way extroverts do.

Extraverts get their energy from being around lots of people and doing social things, but feel drained when spending too much time on their own. For introverts it is the opposite - being sociable takes a lot of energy and we get energised from being on our own or in smaller groups.

It doesn't mean we can't enjoy ourselves or that we are unsociable - it's just harder and I've never met an introvert that would willingly make themselves the centre of attention with something like a big birthday party!

I can't think of anything worse than having to have attend a big party that was being thrown for me - especially if I'd made it clear I didn't want one. I would never throw one for myself.

He told you he didn't want a party but you went ahead anyway because it was what you wanted and the only reason you didn't just have the party for yourself was because you were worried how it would make you look - that is very definition of selfish!

No - you wanted him to have your definition of a nice birthday.

It would have been shitty to arrange a big party for all your family and not include him, because it would mean they were then busy on his birthday. I get that you don’t want to exclude him, of course you don’t. No one is blaming you for wanting him to be included. But once he said no thank you, you need to back off. It’s grossly unreasonable to say that he embarrassed you because you invited his friends and he didn’t turn up.
His wife was also unreasonable for saying he’d come when he’d said he wouldn’t. But why did you listen to her when he’d already said no.

My husband is like you OP. He organised a surprise birthday event for me despite me saying that I absolutely didn’t want any kind of party/occasion. He said he thought I’d enjoy it when he got there. What he really meant is that he likes a party and therefore can’t understand why I don’t. I’m not sociable. I don’t like being the centre of attention. I don’t like large groups. I don’t like parties. Despite all of this, he thought he knew better and I hated every second.

People like you (and DH) may think you have the best of intentions but it is actually all about you and your desires, and a complete inability to listen and take into consideration how others feel. It’s the height of selfishness but you can’t see that as you only think about yourself.

Stop telling your brother what is good for him or what he’ll enjoy. He’s an adult who is allowed not to be sociable, or not to want a party. Your friend is right and you owe them both an apology.

"hardly anyone is seeing this from my POV"
That's not what we're here for. We're here to say YABU or YANBU

"He can be a bit unsociable at times so needs to be encouraged to come to events..."
'Needs' - why? Because you say so, that's why. So domineering.

"..but he always enjoys himself once he's there."
Wrong. The fact that he just told you he didn't want a 21st means he didn't enjoy it - whatever he felt obliged to say at the time.

"Even if I did the wrong thing I don't think I was selfish"
Why don't you think that? Selfishness is doing what you want over the wishes of another - literally what you just did. Everyone is telling you you were being selfish. It's very likely that the people who are 'keeping quiet' also think you were selfish. You are in denial. See also "i'm a really kind person" - kind people literally never say this about themselves. Only manipulative, selfish people who need to believe that they are kind because they can't face the fact that they are manipulative and selfish say this.

"I think my friend was really horrible about it"
She was trying to tell you the truth but you won't listen, so she escalated.

@loonyloo I want to check in and see if you're OK, I think it must be hard to have so many people tell you you've got it wrong. Just remember that none of this makes you a bad person.

With the party issue and the hobby and your friend, you seem to think you know what's best for people. You might do, sometimes, but you won't always and either way you need to just leave them to make their own decisions and possible mistakes and regrets.

I suggest your recollection of your 21st is that he ended up enjoying it. His primary recollection seems to be "I didn't want it, got ignored and overruled and only went because I was pressured into it." The ending up enjoying it is very much a secondary aspect. It's nearly 20 years on anyway, why on earth would you think he's the same person? Sounds like he's even less inclined to be railroaded and all that's happened is you've made him actually stick to his boundaries this time. Has he had 40 years of you thinking you know best and overuling him?

I can't believe you invited his friends. You should have had a party for you and just invited him and his wife like guests. People making excuses about it being a twin thing...well your brother is a twin too and his feelings are just as valid.

You describe yourself as 'kind' and your friend as 'unfeeling'. Ironically, it's very obvious that your friend has a lot more emotional intelligence than you do and is the one who actually understands and respects other people's wishes and needs. You have zero empathy for your brother and think he should have a party because you want one. By contrast, your friend completely understands your brother's feelings and is by far the more perceptive and thoughtful of the two of you.

You are someone - as is clear from your behaviour towards your brother and to your friend - who thinks they know better than their friends and family what is best for them. And you don't. You really, really don't.

If someone tells you they don't want to do something, just accept that and believe them, instead of trying to force them into it and then acting hurt when they don't dance to your tune.

It is very self-centred of you to imagine that other people don't know what's good for them and they need you to push them in the 'right' direction. If I tell someone I don't want a birthday party because it's not my thing, it's because I know myself and I know what I do and don't want. The same applies to your brother. He doesn't need to be pushed into socialising just like your friend doesn't need to be pushed into joining you for your hobby. If people say no to you, just believe them and accept their choices. They know what the right choice is for them - you do not. You are not more perceptive of other people's needs than they are.

Surely you can understand how arrogant/offensive it is to assume that you know people better than they know themselves?? You think you're being kind by trying to push people into socialising, but you are not. They are fine. They are living the life they want to live and the life they enjoy. Not everyone wants to be as sociable as you do, because - newsflash! - people are all different and not everyone has the same needs as you.

You might think you're being kind but as your friend(s) have said - it's actually all about you.

OP, you were in the wrong here as well.

There's a real pattern in your life of people pointing out that you make everything about you and your feelings, and of you refusing to accept that might be the case, isn't there?