To let this friendship drift?

[Rosebold]

I have been close to my friend since secondary school, we went though university together, travelled together, moved to London for a while together and in the past she felt like a soul mate. However in the past five years I've had two children, been at home with them, went to back to work and am now a very busy working mother. My friend on the other hand is married but childfree, her husband is a high earner and she hasn't had a job since she's been with him, she does work at something creative but its not something she makes a living from. Her life is all about the books she's reading, her creative projects, her self care routine etc. Essentially more like the kind of life we had in our 20's and its like she has just gone deeper into that as opposed to growing up into something more adult. Even physically she looks like she did at 25 and seems stuck at that age.

It's not that I think she's wrong or that I don't like her anymore, she's been great with my kids and always goes out of her way to make things easier for me when we meet up because I have more demands on my time. It's more that we were once so close and on the same page with everything but now we feel very far apart. She's sympathetic to the pressures I am under but she hasn't been there herself and I just feel more seen and understood with women who have more similar lives to me these days, with kids and careers.

Its also more difficult because if we meet up if I bring my kids or even one of them it limits where we go or the kids get bored and act up unlike if I meet other Mum friends we can go to the park or some other activity and our kids will play together while we chat and get coffee. It's getting to the point where if I see a message from her I am feeling a bit agitated at the pressure I feel under and I procrastinate over getting back to her and I am seeing her less and less.

I don't want to lose touch with her altogether as I think in time as she matures more we might re-find our connection but at the moment with such little free time I just prefer to share it with people who really get me and know what my life is like, it that so unreasonable?

The OP is really unpleasant and judgemental
what a ghastly and insufferable person.

Can I make sure I am understanding correctly op. It’s the combination of factors that’s an issue? So she could not work if she had kids and that would be fine. She could not have kids but work and that would be fine. But she can’t not have kids and not work as that combination means she is not contributing to society and that somehow makes her a person not worthy of friendships? Have I understood that right?

Be kind, she is a "very busy working mother" who is contributing to society in all sorts of proper ways.

I am a parent and have a full career. You sound a very dull and narrow women with no capacity to enjoy the company of people not of your 'tribe'. Your friend will be better off without you.

This has been a pile on. Unfortunately you have phrased things badly, but it seems like you no longer have anything in common so have run out of conversation.

Yes, YANBU to let the friendship drift. Even if you acknowledge that she is a lovely person, you do need to have something to talk about.

You could see her on her own so that bored children isn’t an issue. But you’re still not interested in the same things.

FWIW a friend of a friend is married to a very wealthy man and also doesn’t work. She does, however, spend a fortune on clothes and bags so she could be seen as supporting the economy!

Agree.
I love my childless friends.
Loved to meet up and NOT talk about my children.
Still do.

I think OP has the maturing to do.

I had a friend from uni. High flying career, very driven, didn't have kids. I had kids and stayed home to look after them. I know she judged my lack of ambition and our friendship waned. She didn't show any interest in my life because it wouldn't have been her choice and she felt I wasn't ambitious enough anymore and was disappointed in me. I know I have kids but I'm sensing that same feeling of judgment between you and your friend as I felt then. People are different. She may have mental health problems, she may just like her life as it is. Maybe get off your cloud of superiority and just value her for the sort of friend she is, which sounds like a good and supportive one.

I think the problem is she sounds like a perfectly pleasant person who makes an effort with you and your children and your posts seem to get worse and more judgemental.

It sounds like you have quite a narrow perspective of what constitutes contributing to society and only look at it from an economic perspective. I'm sure there are peoples lives that she improves from being a kind person. I imagine her husband doesn't think she's not contributing to their life.

She's living a different life to a lot of people and that's fine. It's also fine for you not to gel with her anymore and to spend less time with her but to criticise every aspect of her life in the way is pretty shitty.

You’re to humble to mention if you are a GP, surgeon etc. It’s important to bear in mind how much your household makes - in terms of tax contributions? If you make less than 50k per household member (including kids) you won’t be net contributors - which means you (and your family) take more in education, healthcare etc. than you put back. Your friend however will not be, especially as her DH is a high earner. People thinking their children are of some massive relevance to society, rather than another cost, are labouring under a false pretence. Especially when they are not net tax contributors, so assuming 4 family members that would be 200k, so that others aren’t covering your costs via their taxes.

You’re to humble to mention if you are a GP, surgeon etc. It’s important to bear in mind how much your household makes - in terms of tax contributions? If you make less than 50k per household member (including kids) you won’t be net contributors - which means you (and your family) take more in education, healthcare etc. than you put back. Your friend however will likely be, assuming her DH makes 100k+. People thinking their children are of some massive relevance to society, rather than another cost, are labouring under a false pretence. Especially when they are not net tax contributors, so assuming 4 family members that would be 200k, so that others aren’t covering your costs via their taxes.

Funny how ....

• it was you who brought up the fact that she was childfree and that you had so much more value than her because you had managed to task of giving birth and raising children
• she uses her education for things that she values, and you simply don't like those choices
• you have absolutely no idea what she contributes to "the system" because I doubt that she shares her personal spending habits with you
• you don't actually contribite to the system and probably never will since you and your children will take out far more than you put in

And REALLY funny how tone deaf you are that the majority of posters have disagreed with you but you are incapable of seeing that, even with your enhanced superpower of having given birth, and have "rewriiten the thread" to suggest that "many" people agree with you when actually pretty much everyone except a small number don't.

And I think you are also very confused. If your friend had come on here and posted details of her life (which I strongly suspect would be a rather different version than your "green-eyed monster" version) then people would possibly point out to her that she may be putting herself at risk given her reliance on her husband. I can't honestly say that I have ever seen any woman "torn to shreds" for saying "they don't work and live off their husbands" because most "housewives" would have to say that. And I think you will find that the vast majority of people of any sex will tell you flat out that if they had the money to choose not to work and to pursue things that interested them instead, their resignation would be on the bosses desk in seconds - the entire premise of the national lottery is to do exactly that for most people.

The reason you are being criticised has nothing to do with how she lives her life, and everything to do with the fact that you are a deplorable "friend" who is nasty, judgemental, unappreciative, shallow and "up yourself", and she would be better off without you in her life.

What an arrogant and judgemental person you are!

Let the relationship fade. She is far better off without someone as awful as you in her life.

Jealous much?!

Yep, many people able to cobble the brains together to get pregnant and give birth, don’t actually understand the cost of their family to the UK tax payer. Far from being some sort of noble and selfless pursuit, many families in the UK are not tax net contributors - meaning they are of cost to the higher rate tax payers. So OP really is quite misguided about the cost of partners of high tax payers to the UK - they are often net contributors - via the tax contributions/allowances applicable to all married couples. Usually high earners will also top up the non or low earners pensions too. It’s families who don’t earn enough to cover their costs that are the issue, not the childfree.

It can be hard to maintain friendships with people at different stages of your life when you have less in common. I always liked spending time with child free friends as they were more fun in many ways and helped me remember my pre-Mum identity. And I had a few friends with children who didn’t work so we bonded more over child related things. But I didn’t have any child free friends who didn’t work and I get how they would feel so very far removed from everything about your world at the moment. The issue is that she isn’t a new friend and is still trying to maintain your relationship so you might need to make more effort to find things in common if you want to stay in touch. You have lots of shared memories still too. Perhaps do a dinner every three or four months without kids and just enjoy a nice night out together. With a long break between each meeting you will have enough news to share for a nice quality get together that doesn’t feel forced.

You really should stop posting OP. With every post you sound increasingly bitter, jealous and unpleasant with zero feelings of friendship or affection toward this woman (or indeed anyone who doesn't share your ideas of a life well lived).

You seem to have some exalted notions of what you, as a mother, bring to the world. You had sex, that's it. The rest is biology and something even a teenager can accomplish. You added to the population - good for you, it's what you chose to do with YOUR life, it's not for everyone and it really is not that big a deal to the world at large.

The thing is @Rosebold you say yourself that you’ve been friends forever and you’re basically saying you’ve now decided you don’t like her because she doesn’t work or have children.

Why does that matter? Her core values, personality, humour and everything else is still the same as always.

You are the one who’s not willing to accept her because her life doesn’t mirror yours.

It says more about you and how judgemental you are more than anything.

I have friends who have kids/don’t have kids, work full time/part time/not at all, have strong political beliefs/none at all. It doesn’t matter. I don’t have to agree with every single detail of their life and neither do they with mine.

Why is she less mature than you because she does not have children? You sound harsh. If shes a good close friend why throw that away? Good friends are hard to come by these days. You'll be in the position of having grown dc one day then you'll hopefully have more time for yourself to be more self indulgent.
Maybe either her or her dh can't have children & shes chosen not to tell you, its a very private thing between them
Maybe shes chosen not to have them as there's too many people on the planet already. Don't judgte her personal choices if shes been a good friend.

I could be the person you're describing. I work in the creative industries and have been unemployed for six months after a burnout and subsequently not being able to find work in a field where work is extremely scarce, so much so that I am having to change careers. It has made me incredibly depressed. I have indulged my (unpaid) creative projects recently because they are the only things that are currently giving me purpose. And I am living off my husband. You don't know what's going on for her - maybe her situation is making her sadder than you realise though I hope for her sake that's not the case.

Your judgemental comments are exactly what I fear people might be saying about me. I worry about this constantly and then remind myself that no one is really that judgemental / nasty / harsh. Turns out that is very naive of me.

Also there is literally nothing worse you can do for your carbon footprint than have a child. It is not some noble, selfless pursuit. The world would thank you more for not having children. Get off your incredibly judgemental high horse.

Her life is all about the books she's reading, her creative projects, her self care routine etc. Essentially more like the kind of life we had in our 20's and its like she has just gone deeper into that as opposed to growing up into something more adult. Even physically she looks like she did at 25 and seems stuck at that age.

Yes you should let it drift. She’s better off without a condescending, patronising, judgemental friend like you. And to be honest you sound a teeny tiny bit jealous.

You sound jealous that she still looks 25, a case of the green eyed monster? You sound like you believe women should look and act a certain way once they become mothers. For some reason I imagine you Boden/M&S clad, cutting your hair into a sensible unflattering bob after procreating as caring about your appearance is futile now you are a mother. She's probably bored of hanging out with you and your children "acting up" i.e, behaving like brats in her presence.

OP, I'm curious to see how you feel about disabled people who cannot work? You say you have less respect for her because she doesn't contribute to society (whatever that means). Does that also mean you look down on those who take out of the tax pot and claim benefits because of disability?

This is an often over used phrase on Mumsnet but in this case it really applies - you sound like hard work. I hope your friend realises how you see her, it sounds like she deserves better. The way you speak about her is so disrespectful and she has done nothing to deserve that.

Ley’s hope your ‘friend’ finds this thread, then I think you’ll find you won’t have this problem anymore as she’ll be the one dumping you! I’d be horrified to learn that any of my friends spoke about me the way you have spoken about her here. Your jealousy is shining through and you clearly don’t value this poor woman at all, so let her go so she can find some decent friends who actually like her.

What a surprise that the OP went missing. The thinly veiled jealousy absolutely dripped from the post. Tenner says the friend isn’t remotely envious of @Rosebold ‘s life of maternal drudgery.