AIBU not to marry DP after being burned

[FailingtoJuggle]

NC for this but happy for MN to verify I’m a pre-existing poster.

I’m 43. I married at 30, divorced at 35. No children from that marriage. I married because it felt like the “right” thing at the time — we’d been together a long time, everyone around us was settling down, and he was a nice man. We had a dream wedding. And a nice life. But I didn’t love him in the way I should have, and the thought of having children with him made me miserable. Literally I felt sick at the thought. We were more like siblings. I do regret marrying him and wish I was strong enough to have walked away before. But I was lonely.

The divorce was awful. I honestly couldn’t have imagined a nice guy like him turning so nasty. I naively thought we’d be friend forever, even after divorcing! I feel like such a dick now thinking I could be so stupid. I was the higher earner, we had no prenup, and everything was joint, including the house in London which I largely financed. He walked away with a massive amount of money (in return for leaving my pension alone) and I had to rebuild. I swore I’d never put myself in that position again.

I do believe everything happens for a reason though. Not long afterwards I met my current partner. I do genuinely love him, we’ve been together 7 years, and we now have two young DC. U honestly feel blessed and I feel for him what I never felt for my ex. Sheer love and desire and respect. Don’t get me wrong - he can be a plonker like all blokes and life is hard with two small kids in our 40s but I’m genuinely happy.

He’s not bothered about marriage, and after my last experience I’ve been reluctant too.

But somehow I’ve ended up the high earner again! I bloody wish money wasn’t an issue but it seems to always become one

The situation now is that I earn around £250k, he earns about £30k. We’ve recently bought a house (around £2m) in my sole name. Pensions and savings are mine too. With my ex, everything was pooled. Now everything is deliberately separate — I feel safer that way. I pay everything though. Literally everything. Mortgage, bills, holiday, private school fees (oldest kid - youngest not started yet but will soon), food, everything for kids. I don’t ask him for a penny and I wouldn’t. I’m not a dick. He’s generous to the extent he can be and I’m grateful for the thought when he spends his money eg picking up top
up food in the week from Sainsbury’s or my Amazon mum mug on Mother’s Day buying me some chocolate when I’ve had a hard day. I genuinely appreciate it.

But here’s my worry: if I were to die, the house and assets would face a big inheritance tax bill. We’re not cash rich as my salary after tax flies out of my account on all the bills we have. So I worry the children could be forced to sell the house if I were to die to pay the IHT. Marriage would avoid some of these issues.

So I’m torn. Part of me wants to keep things as they are — I’ve worked hard for my financial security and don’t want to risk another messy split. But another part of me wonders if I’m being short-sighted not marrying, especially for the children’s sake.

What would you do?

Oh and please don’t post if you’re going to kick me down for my salary and house price. I’m not boasting. It is what it is and relevant to the advice I’m seeking. I’m also not going to feel shit about working hard to get to where I am today. I came from a working class family where I was the first to go to university. I’ve had no silver spoons or helping hands. And no fucking “luck” either. It’s pure hard graft and I’ve already had one man fuck off back to his home country with a chunk of my hard work and I’m so distrustful of my judgment and worried it will happen again.

Sorry for the length and thanks for reading if you go this far.

YANBU - don’t marry. Keep your independence.
YABU - it won’t happen again. Marry and protect your kids.

I apologise if I misunderstood.

I did say I’m not saying you’re wrong.

Please can you explain what you mean as I genuinely don’t understand why it’s different for different sexes.

Unless you believe that things should only get split in the event of divorce if there are children involved?

Your opinion isn’t wrong, I would just like to understand it.

It is my understanding that you think people should spilt things completely even if there are children involved - if the man is the higher earner?

But you think people shouldn’t spilt things completely even if there are children involved - if the woman of the higher earner?

And you think if no children are involved then things shouldn’t be spilt evenly, it should be based on who earns what?

@ a split is much much more likely than your premature demise wouldn’t you say? So based on that, don’t marry.

@Ddakji you’re absolutely right if calculating net! The £50k was gross to illustrate what a massive chunk that is off £250k.

Which may or may not be gross income of course. The OP has not been very precise.

The mortgage in this scenario will, realistically, and based on the information OP has provided, be another £100k a year. Minimum.

To be explicit, the school fees x2 and 2 million mortgage alone require a quarter of a million in gross salary. There is nothing left over for all the other expenditures that the OP covers.

Unless of course she’s on half a million gross. And that is rather unusual.

I wonder who looks after the small-ish kids when the partner is doing one of his 12-hour days and the OP is tied up with her extremely well remunerated job?

The whole thing is absurd. And not real.

But here’s my worry: if I were to die, the house and assets would face a big inheritance tax bill. We’re not cash rich as my salary after tax flies out of my account on all the bills we have. So I worry the children could be forced to sell the house if I were to die to pay the IHT. Marriage would avoid some of these issues

You're worried about the IHT bill but haven't mentioned any worries about what would happen to your partner if you left the house to your children. He'd be out on his ear if they decided to sell, either to pay the IHT bill or just because they wanted the money.
If you love him as you say you do then you do need to make sure that he's not going to be out on his arse if you die before him.
You should talk to a solicitor about this.

As for marrying him and protecting assets in the event of a divorce. It's a difficult one that, but he hasn't taken a hit to his career because he was a SAHP for several years and running the household. He's chosen to work part time in a low paying career and he hasn't made provision for pensions etc. So in this respect I don't think he's contributed equally and seems to be quite happy to float along with you paying for most things because you are the high earner.

I don't think I'd marry him because I'd not be happy with losing a huge chunk of money to someone in the event of a divorce who hasn't contributed equally. Contribution to me also includes being a SAHP, it isn't all about financial contribution.
You could end up struggling in retirement, which you have planned and saved for, because someone else hasn't bothered to make their own plans and savings.

However, I would ensure that he wasn't going to be homeless or in dire straits if I died, if we were still together when I died. You can put things in place to protect him in those circumstances and should you split later you can then change your will again.

Thank you. This is helpful. I would never imagine him doing that but I’ve been on MN long enough to know people change and previously devoted husbands can leave without a backwards glance.

To other posters who have mentioned it - no, I would never want to see the father of my children penniless. But there’s a difference between protecting him in the event of my death or in the event of a split. In the event of a split how far am I meant to go in subsidising him?

OP can set up a trust fund for DCs on the basis that if DP/DH were to remarry DCs inheritance risked otherwise going to DP/DHs new spouse.
I believe a trust fund could also protect DCs from losing assets in divorce if they marry than divorce as adults.

I think Your plan will end after a set term as it sounds like a term insurance plan if were to end after a set age. More expensive but what the op needs to cover iht is a whole of life policy

I think your post is a bit harsh.

Re my current partner, I do share everything now. I literally share my entire salary to support my family and give them a good lifestyle. He’s leading and enjoying a life he never would if it wasn’t for meeting me. I genuinely try not to resent it because I chose him and I knew exactly the type of person he was before we got together and I don’t expect him to change and suddenly become ambitious or career driven. It is what it is and he brings other qualities to the table. He’s kind and calm and so intelligent. He’s a wonderful dad. I do value his calmness given I suffer often with high levels of stress and anxiety.

Re my ex I think that’s unfair. He did not support my career - and in the absence of children I don’t see why he should have been entitled to half my assets. I’m not the only person who has perhaps made the wrong choice in marriage and I did genuinely love and support him while we were together (again while he enjoyed a lifestyle far beyond that which he could have afforded alone). In any case, I certainly paid a high price for my wrong choice and his money grabbing behaviour during the divorce certainly made any feelings of guilt at ending the marriage evaporate swiftly.

I think your post is a bit harsh.

Re my current partner, I do share everything now. I literally share my entire salary to support my family and give them a good lifestyle. He’s leading and enjoying a life he never would if it wasn’t for meeting me. I genuinely try not to resent it because I chose him and I knew exactly the type of person he was before we got together and I don’t expect him to change and suddenly become ambitious or career driven. It is what it is and he brings other qualities to the table. He’s kind and calm and so intelligent. He’s a wonderful dad. I do value his calmness given I suffer often with high levels of stress and anxiety.

Re my ex I think that’s unfair. He did not support my career - and in the absence of children I don’t see why he should have been entitled to half my assets. I’m not the only person who has perhaps made the wrong choice in marriage and I did genuinely love and support him while we were together (again while he enjoyed a lifestyle far beyond that which he could have afforded alone). In any case, I certainly paid a high price for my wrong choice and his money grabbing behaviour during the divorce certainly made any feelings of guilt at ending the marriage evaporate swiftly.

Hello,

I can assure you it’s not a fantasy. The house is worth £2m. Not the mortgage. I can’t even imagine how much that would be monthly?!?! The mortgage is around £550k and a combination of porting a very low interest rate from the previous house plus additional borrowing for this house means the monthly outgoing for the mortgage is around £2400.

You are absolutely right that half my salary is taken up with tax. And so yes after the mortgage and other bills we are not rolling in liquid cash. Which is exactly why I said we are not cash rich.

You are also right that I am senior and incredibly busy. I don’t know how things work for you and your husband - but I do more than my fair share at home too. I do not stop. I work from 6 am until midnight on a combination of actual work and life admin. I have no hobbies. I barely have friends anymore. I look after the kids overnight as the littlest one still doesn’t sleep through. I haven’t slept more than 4 hours in a row since DC1 was born. I am not saying this for sympathy or to criticise my partner. You expressed scepticism so I’m just being factual about how it works for us. And it’s bloody hard.

And hence, I gather OP, the reason this isn’t equivalent to a ‘reverse’ situation, is because you’re working like you don’t have children, and parenting like you don’t have a job.
You’re still the default parent, when ordinarily the parent with the career and salary wouldn’t be?

Surely, you buy life insurance that will pay any inheritance tax and the rest of the mortgage and stay unmarried; both problems solved.

Because there is such a discrepancy in earnings, and because of your previous experiences, in your position I wouldn't get married.

I would buy life insurance and put it in trust for your partner/kids instead -enough at least to pay off the mortgage and give them a reasonable quality of life in the event of your death- and I would pass your house to your kids in your will to minimise inheritance tax paid.

Marriage literally means the other person is entitled to 50% of your assets though. He didn’t do anything wrong going after what he was entitled to. Did you not know what marriage legally meant?

I can see you’ve worked hard to get to where you are. Do you mind me asking what do you do to earn 250k a year omg it’s a salary most of us can only dream of!

It isn’t just about him if you split up though. What about the kids? Unless you don’t think it’s important that he can accommodate them wherever he lives if you split. Like I said earlier, I’m very anti marriage - I don’t think it’s right that women walk away with half of men’s assets if they’ve never or barely worked (in instances where that is the case). But having kids does change things because it becomes about both parents being able to provide for them after the split.

Indeed.

I’m glad you think your partner is a good kind person. Because he doesn’t so7nd like it to me.

Yeah he sounds absolutely useless and unwilling to do much and sees the savings as both of yours

I wonder whether part of what you are questioning is what happens if/when you burn out and realise you are t happy because you don’t sound it

I wouldn’t get married either. If you want to however, then I would advise taking professional advice regarding protecting your assets beforehand. Remember, the person you marry isn’t at all guaranteed to be the person you divorce,

I would advise a man the same. If marriage is important to a partner, male or female, then they are free to not have children/build a life with someone that isn’t offering it.

I second speaking to a wealth manager. They will be able to advise you on specialist insurance products to cover IHT. If you’re young and healthy then it shouldn’t be too costly. Also, please write a will!

I get it OP. Also, the poster you're replying to is a bit odd on school fees. Yes, it can be as much as £50k per kid, but even with the new VAT, that's not necessarily required. The school we've looked at for DS was £21k pre VAT so I assume it's around £25-30k now.

I have already commented on this thread to say I don't think that inheritance tax should be your primary concern - you dying young is relatively unlikely and that means you have plenty of time to pass your wealth to your chidlren over the next 20-40 years and, if you DID die young, you'd still be leaving them with a lot.

I also think that I could have told you that @Isthathowlongitsbeen is a SAHM rather than a SAHD by her comment that it's impossible to earn that money and do the bulk of the mental load. <hollow laugh> DH was a SAHD for a while, and I still took on a lot more than most men do when their wives are SAHMs.

He works now but part time, but like you, I am not alone in being a woman who earns the bulk of the income and who also still does the bulk of the mental load. In my case, I've got comfortable with this by a) insisting SOME of the mental load is handed to my DH b) making it clear that he will have to do a lot more of the physical load c) he contributes in a lot of other ways that are less physical/material but are hugely important to me.

If your DC are still young, and you're doing all the earning, and all the mental load and you have not perhaps got to the point where you feel like he is contributing sufficiently (practically, physically, mentally, financially), this could be impacting your thinking and decision making here and it might be that you need to take a long hard look at where you actually need more from him, and how you can discuss that with him. My Dh is a truly good man. But he's also a man of 50+ who has been socialised to just assume certain things/ to not care about certain things etc and it's taken effort from BOTH Of us, for some of these assumptions to be challenged, and the behaviours to change as a result.

but I do more than my fair share at home too. I do not stop. I work from 6 am until midnight on a combination of actual work and life admin. I have no hobbies. I barely have friends anymore. I look after the kids overnight as the littlest one still doesn’t sleep through. I haven’t slept more than 4 hours in a row since DC1 was born.

And so you should do your fair share.

But (And I know this isn’t the point of the thread and I’m usually pulling my hair out when women say they don’t work) why is your DH working so much?

You make an insane amount of money and live in a house worth £2mill yet you work long hours, have no hobbies or friends. Your DH works 12 hour shifts 4 days a week for money that isn’t needed.

I can’t help but feel a bit sorry for your kids.

You say yourself you aren’t even cash rich - so what’s the point?

Could one of you not drop your hours so that you can spend more time with your kids and can pick up housework etc so the other one can have more of a life?

@FailingtoJuggle I still don’t understand the figures. £1.5 million in equity after a divorce settlement that excluded pensions is a staggering, credulity-stretching amount. You must have had a massive pot of cash or even greater equity. Where on earth did that come from? I obviously have no right to demand an explanation or breakdown, and certainly don’t expect one, but it just doesn’t add up.

And I genuinely don’t understand how you’re going to afford the second set of school fees if your mortgage is that high?

Also, and this is just a rough calculation, but if you were to have the same amount of discretionary spending power as your partner, ie. around 1500 pcm, you’d have probably about 2.5 k left for ALL your bills and outgoings excluding mortgage and school fees.

One more thing, how are you offering your family a high quality of life? There’s not a lot there!

Now if you are real, then I would suggest you take the excellent advice you’ve been given here pronto re the marriage issue and then take a step back and make sure the life and finances you are describing are definitely what you want. Because the big picture sounds dire and, honestly and sincerely, your worries about an early death are entirely warranted. What’s in this for you?

@MageQueen the school fees figure was based on gross salary. You need about 50k per kid gross.

(I’m not a SAHM! Hideous thought.)

A much higher-earner should never get married. A prenup isn't good enough protection. If they want to provide for their partner, they can arrange to do that without marrying them.

That's not just about protecting your money, it's about protecting yourself from potentially being trapped in an unhappy or abusive relationship, for decade after decade, where the daily stress and pain is not quite bad enough at any given moment that you are willing to bite the bullet and split, losing money that you will have to work 10 extra years to replace. (I realise that's a remarkably specific objection.)

At this stage in life, probably take out life insurance to pay the IHT bill, after checking with an IFA that's the best option. Life insurance could be very cheap if it only lasts until the children are grown and gone. If you're still together in your 70's, a new plan might make sense then.