To not want to live to an old age

[2sidesofcoins]

Reading the eldery parents board it has filled me with dread for old age. It has so many wealthy elderly people living in misery, too old to enjoy life anymore, no matter how wealthy.
My generation won't see much of retirement as it's pushed up to 70. We have 2 working parents, a lot more stress, enviromental toxins and will see life expectancy reduce very soon.
But the altenative of having my brain die while I am live on is terrifying. I think I'll be refusing antibiotic treatment and going out with the old persons friend Pneumonia!
I'm mid forties and pissed off at all the age related shite already (Reading glasses, stiff joints, looming menopause, inability to lose weight!!)

Fucking hell, being 80 is not a terminal illness.

Do you know what @OonaStubbs , I am starting to think that's not the worst option. At least the NHS would be able to concentrate on those most likely to recover.

I know being 80 isn't a diagnosis, but reaching 80 is great, and any past glories achieved will be remembered and memorialised.

I attended a conference on aging years ago. The only thing I took from it was "you are the old person you think old people are". Meaning, if you think them useless, frail, vulnerable then you will become useless, frail and vulnerable.

Of course if you think they are joyful, fit and full of vitality you will become that.

My mum died at 54, overweight, unfit and vulnerable whereas my dad was 79 but very fit, vital and living life. (Both cancer).

Invest in your old age, take fitness and health seriously, stay/get active, take up and maintain interests, eat well, actively seek joy, and stay plugged in to life.

So someone over 80 who gets a UTI should be offered palliative care instead of a simple course of anti-biotic?
That just sounds like a way to hasten death, and often in an unpleasant way.
A lot of things that would affect 80 year olds can be recovered from... and a lot of things that affect younger people wont be recovered from.

I don't disagree with a single word of that @Mumptynumpty . All very sound, but I am already 69. I'm in great shape thanks to dog walking and x2 weekly Pilates, but your post is patronising. I am older than you and thank you very much I already fucking know what's involved in staying fit.

Yes but money and resources are finite and spending money keeping very old people alive diverts funds from other areas.

I certainly don't think people should be able to choose to exercise their right to die and have it happen immediately. There should be a cooling off period where they can change their mind.

I’d like to be ancient if I could be like my parents. They lived well into their 90s (they were both in their 40s when I was born).

Both seen off by extremely short illnesses. Neither needed care, lost faculties or fitness. Both were driving, walking, playing golf and bridge, doing the telegraph crossword, gardening, eating out until the very end. age never withered them.

They loved life until the very last knockings.

I have friends with much younger parents who are frail or demented. Several miserable in care homes. I’d probably prefer an earlier death.

@XenoBitch . it's lovely to think you are giving people more scope for a lovely life and fab experiences, but I don't think that's really what care home residents would prefer. DMIL thought the care home was as dull as ditch water intellectually and misbehaved every time she felt well enough.

Make your mind up!
Can someone who wants to die be allowed to? And is someone over 80 allowed to have treatment to live if they want it?

I am not on about care home residents. I was responding to a PP saying anyone over 80 should be left to die. Most people do not go into care homes.

No Xenobitch, most of us don't die tidily, but more do than don't. My opinion remains that if you are taken ill at 50 then you get the full on all stops out treatment; at 60, all reasonable avenues explored, including novel treatments because you are still young enough to be a useful guinea pig for trials; at 70, the system should give you enough therapy to get through, with your determined effort to succeed. At 80, probably not.

And I write this at almost 70.

The whole what age debate reminds me of Tommy Tiernan

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D84A-ZN_y1U

Meh, I felt like shit in my late forties.
Now 58 and feel great. I plan on living long, and do my best to stay fit and healthy.

And my mum's friend who is in good health in all aspects at nearly 90... should be left for sepsis to take hold should she get a UTI?

Exactly. Only 4-5% go into care homes.

I do think you should get treatment where it’s going to enable good quality of life afterwards. I think often NHS just acts to preserve life though without a lot of thought to how is this patient going to be doing in six months. A sort of treadmill of care.

For example a great aunt of mine had her leg amputated in her 80s . It did save her life but it only extended it by 18 months and those were spent in pain. There were many hospital stays and she became really depressed.

Hindsight is obviously a great thing but I know it was a source of regret for her / the family. NHS probsbly spent tens of thousands on op and subsequent care just do she could have a slow, painful end.

Well, that is why a holistic approach is taken rather than just the age.

Saying that, sometimes you do wonder. I remember caring for a patient who was elderly, had advanced dementia, and was seeing us to have a biopsy taken. If the result was cancer, would he have had all the treatments thrown at him? For who? He had no family, and had no capacity for anything really.

Can someone who wants to die be allowed to? Yes. But not on the same day they make the decision.

Is someone over 80 allowed to have treatment to live if they want it? Yes, absolutely. But not through the NHS.

Why would someone who is 80+ not be allowed treatment on the NHS?
What is your rationale for that?

To direct money and resources where they will be most effective.

You pay national insurance while you are working, and once you are retired you get a certain amount of years of NHS treatment. But then it stops.

I do know what you mean OP and I think if you see your elderly relatives suffer, it changes your view. Most of my older family members lived til 90s/100 and had a miserable last few years. My grandma was in a nursing home with severe dementia for well over a decade. Now my DP and DFIL are all in a bad way for various reasons, mid-late 80s and all miserable. Last year we lost DMIL to dementia and now DM has been diagnosed with it and is declining. It's horrific and DF is devastated. However, I do know many people who are happy in their old age and do not suffer as much. But when you have seen the suffering up close, it's very hard to feel positive about old age!

But people retire far earlier than 80... 66/67 right now?
So would you want to be the doctor who tells a 68 year old who is still working, that they wont be getting cancer treatment, and they should just wait to die instead?
And I am predicting that you will say that people that have never worked due to disabilities should never have their lives prolonged, as they are "useless eaters".

A 68 year old would be entitled to NHS treatment because they are under 80.

Retired people of any age under 80 would be entitled to NHS treatment.

And and over 80 year old who is still very active in their community.
David Attenborough?

That's barbaric. So if you're poor, your life is thrown on the scrap heap when you reach some arbitrary age. You could die of something easily cured, because you can't afford to see a private GP or to pay for antibiotics. You can't treat old people like that and call yourself civilised.