To not want to live to an old age

[2sidesofcoins]

Reading the eldery parents board it has filled me with dread for old age. It has so many wealthy elderly people living in misery, too old to enjoy life anymore, no matter how wealthy.
My generation won't see much of retirement as it's pushed up to 70. We have 2 working parents, a lot more stress, enviromental toxins and will see life expectancy reduce very soon.
But the altenative of having my brain die while I am live on is terrifying. I think I'll be refusing antibiotic treatment and going out with the old persons friend Pneumonia!
I'm mid forties and pissed off at all the age related shite already (Reading glasses, stiff joints, looming menopause, inability to lose weight!!)

If someone offered me a deal right 80 years old I'd probably take it. Really don't want to end up in a nursing home just as much as I'd be fuming if I fell off my perch in my 40s/50s.

Maybe the NHS should stop at 80? And you should be offered end of life services once you reach that age. It would free up more funds for under 80s healthcare so more people reach that age.

I’m a pensioner, and both my ex husband I worked when the kids were young. This generation didn’t invent 2 parents working.

I’m not a pensioner, but my parents both worked too.

PP who said stop nhs treatment at 80? Bloody hell!

I agree with assisted dying in theory, but given some of the discourse on elderly and disabled, coercion, unavailable/inaccessible treatment/care, I’m sceptical in practice.

But instead you chose to start a thread complaining about how bitchy and unsupportive mumsnet is, purely because posters on this thread had suggested if you focus on improving your present, the future may not look quite so dark.

A friend of mine has stage 4 cancer age 49, another friend's husband died of cancer at 50. Be careful what you wish for.

People age in very different ways. I know several people in their early 80s who are as fit as fiddles, my DH died at 89 and other than the last couple of months he was getting out and about and enjoying life. My DM was in a care home but still enjoying life until her sudden death at 88. I know people who are in their 100s and still enjoying life.

I take it you don't know many people in their early 80s.

I think you’ll be surprised how you feel when you get to that stage of life.

PIL died recently (late 80s/early 90s) and were physically frail plus had some dementia. I thought like you, I couldn’t bear to live there that and would rather die. However, they didn’t want to die at all. Not until the last few days when they were in pain.

Or doesn’t like them very much!

However I do agree that we may have peaked re life expectancy.

My and DH’s grandmothers lived until close to 100. Both of our DMs were not as fit as their mothers had been at comparable ages. MIL died, very frail at 91, her mother died a couple of weeks before her 100th birthday, but was still living independently at home at 98. My DGM was still going on hikes at 81, my DM can just walk around the park.

The much older generation were much fitter. No processed foods, more walking to and from the bus stop etc.

I was horrified to read an article some years ago that said that children that were obese before the age of about 10 would likely die before their parents, even if they were fitter into adulthood, because of the damage done early on.

Sorry, didn’t finish, by die before their parents it didn’t mean that they wouldn’t live to as old an age, but that their parents would outlive them.

Yes the survival.instinct is strong. I expect vast majority of people who claim they would end their life at the first signs of dementia would not do so

Euthanasia (now rebranded as assisted dying to imply autonomy and choice) terrifies me. Initially, there would be robust safeguards, but i have no doubt these would be watered down over time, especially for those who can't afford care home fees and / or don't have family to advocate for them. Sadly, I think it will be introduced, as it'll save the Govt £££££

As a parallel, see abortion legislation. Legislation only permits abortion in v limited circumstances. In practice, available on demand, women's right to choose. Dont wish to derail thread by starting debate on whether that's positive change. Just highlighting that law does not operate as originally intended

So you really believe if you're 81 and live a good healthy life, are loved by your family, paid taxes all your life, generally very healthy, but get a treatable infection, you should be denied any treatment, yet a 40 year old drug addict on benefits, unable to work and only takes from the system, should be treated and resuscitated every time they overdose? Or how about a 25 year old schizophrenic who has to be regularly hospitalised?

Clearly you favour eugenics but in that case you should realise that age is not the only definer of who is a net taker from the system.

I take it you don't have healthy family members over 80.

Look at what's happening with the "right to die" in Canada. It started off in 2016 as being just for people whose death was "foreseeable". Then a few years later it was extended to people whose death was not foreseeable but who had a "grievous and irremediable condition" (room for flexibility there). It is soon being extended to include mental illnesses. There has also been talk of extending it to include children. People have reported being encouraged to opt for assisted death because, for example, they were autistic, or they were asking for mental health treatment because of thoughts of suicide, or in one case because the woman had applied for financial support to get a stair lift fitted in her house, and the request was refused. It's saving the government a huge amount of money on healthcare costs, apparently. It discriminates against the poor, who may opt for death, and even be encouraged to, because they're turned down for benefits or are homeless.
A few European countries already allow the euthanasia of children and of people who are suffering from a mental illness. A few years ago a 23 year old Belgian woman was euthanised because she was suffering from depression and PTSD after having witnessed a terrorist bomb go off at the airport.

It's chilling, isn't it? I'm constantly surprised by the naivety of people who think there would be robust safeguards beyond the initial period

Healthcare is hugely expensive. And people who can't pay / advocate for themselves are hugely vulnerable if euthanasia (rebranded as "right to die" to imply autonomy and choice) is introduced. Sadly I think it will be introduced, but for all the wrong reasons. This is about saving money, not helping ill patients

I'm constantly surprised by the naivety of people who think there would be robust safeguards beyond the initial period

Even the safeguards which were supposed to be there for the initial period are disappearing, @Dancingsquirrels

Before this was voted on supporters had a great deal to say about how "It'll all have to go via the courts", but they went awfully quiet when that was predictably scrapped

What is wrong with saving money?

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saving money. I’m also unbothered by the direction of Canada, euthanising children in Belgium or depressed people in the Netherlands or the other cases that make the press. I believe unbearable suffering is subjective and is really between a patient and their doctor.

I hope that when I’m old and ill euthanasia is on offer here. Id like to decide when my life is not worth living to me and if that saves the NHS, ( and the DWP( state pension) and the local council ( if I need care)) a few quid then good for them

I think I’m more pragmatic than most though.

That's not how it's working for some poor and vulnerable people, though, @OonaStubbs . If you're terminally ill and in great pain and are ready to die, and your decision just happens to save the NHS some money, that's one thing. But imagine being elderly, disabled, perhaps mentally confused, living alone in poor, insecure accommodation with no support from anyone, barely having enough money to survive on. You ask your local council or your GP for help, and they tell you that there's a long waiting list or application process for help, but there's an easier, sensible solution which is available right away... Similarly, vulnerable disabled and elderly people can be pressurised into a euthanasia decision by family members who don't want to look after them and do want to inherit their house. In Canada, there's great unease at how people are signing up for euthanasia when there's not actually that much wrong with them, but their life has become very difficult because they can't access financial or practical support from the state.

Yes, this

Saving money is fine. Saving money by killing off people whose quality of life could have been improved, or might have felt differently another day = not fine at all

I interpret your drift, but I hope that more people like their older relatives and would wish to see them shuffle off peacefully. My DM managed it beautifully, but DMIL was angry for a few years that she was alive and failing in her 90s. Not robust enough to be independent, so not safe to be left alone. Having seen the reality of life over the age of 90, I would prefer to die a little younger.

You ask your local council or your GP for help, and they tell you that there's a long waiting list or application process for help, but there's an easier, sensible solution which is available right away

My DMIL would have opted in immediately. She always believed fervently in her right to choose her end date, and she was incredibly miserable when it drifted interminably and her health deteriorated. as it does almost inevitably after 85.

DMIL93 fell out of her bed, in her care home, at 7 am one morning, It took 27 hours for an ambulance to transfer her to hospital where she lingered for six weeks with infections etc, in a geriatric trauma unit where most of the other patients screamed in pain or anguish for 20 hours every day. Eventually, the hospital and doctors admitted there was no way to make her well. She was discharged back to the quiet care home and died five hours after. It was the worst version of death I can imagine. DH had to listen to her screaming "mummy, daddy, kill me".

Euthanasia is actually the kindest option in advanced age. I have said yes to putting to sleep two adored pets, because it was the right option to spare them more pain. Nobody wants it; but it ends the suffering. DMIL had asked me to go with her to Dignitas when the time came, and I agreed to do it, but by the time she wanted to go, her health (intellectual and physical) no longer allowed her the choice.

My grandad died in his late 80s, but had so many health issues. He said if he had been offered a button to press to end it all, then he would have done it at 75.
But then my mum has a friend who is pushing 90 and is still very active physically and socially. She loves life.