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For thinking that the migrant protests ...

1000 replies

Ihateboris · 23/08/2025 12:35

Should be held at the council offices, Government departments, rather than the migrant hotels? After all, it's due to the government's lack of processing that the migrants are there?

OP posts:
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27
Ihateboris · 25/08/2025 15:50

MyNameIsX · 25/08/2025 14:06

GBP 132 mn versus 5.4 bn and climbing.

That ignores what the RF bring in for the UK.

Be serious, please.

I am being serious, and playing let's not go down the "but they bring x amount of revenue into the Uk". I don't care about that, as previously said, I don't want to pay for the entitled, lazy scroungers.

OP posts:
MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 16:07

Hirsi-Ali has some interesting insights into the cultural aspects that influence some of behavior we've seen. For those that aren't familiar with her she's a Somalian born Muslim who suffered FGM as a child and fled a forced marriage.

She's written a lot of articles and a number of books discussing the intersection between radical Islam and women's rights which resulted in a fatwa being issued against her. Partly also for her involvement in a film about women's rights in Islam. The director himself was murdered by a radical islamist (shot and his throat slashed) and the murderer pinned a note to the chest of the corpse with a knife, the note being a death threat to Hirsi Ali.

The below excerpt is discussing the NYE in Germany where 1200 sexual assaults were committed in a single night.

That event was New Year's Eve, December 31, 2015, January 1st, 2016. And in Cologne, people go out and celebrate and they drink. And I think the women, especially the women had no idea that this time it was going to be different. What they didn't know was about a game called the rape game. And this is very common in various North African countries, various middle Eastern countries. And what happens is you get a group of men, a large group of men who form three concentric circles, an inner circle that they pick a victim or a number of female victims, and they surround them and they start attacking these women.

And then there's the second circle, which is cheering the rapists on. And then there is a larger outer circle that is keeping outsiders from coming into that circle. And this is something that obviously the German women in Cologne had never experienced before and over 500 and what? I think I have the number in the book, reported that they were raped and robbed and groped and harassed and subjected to this particular horrifying game. And unfortunately less than 50 of those cases made it to an investigation and almost no one to a conviction.

First of all, I think we have to take the time to understand where these men come from. Some of these societies are still tribal. They are religious and they've been influenced by radical Islam for many decades now. So there are young men now in their teens and twenties who were born into an Islamist society, not just a Muslim society, but an Islamic society. And then you have also societies where order is completely broken down. Places like Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan. So even the existing tribal order or religious order is just completely broken down and that means that these young men are exposed a great deal of violence, especially a great deal of violence against women, that's number one. Number two, even where there is some form of order and tradition. Women are divided into good women versus bad women.

And good women are those who are obedient and submissive and stay at home and are covered from head to toe. And everyone else is a bad woman who doesn't live by that code. So when these men come to Europe, when they come to the west and they see women dressed as they please, free, going about their business, they think of them as bad women. And on top of that, as one Egyptian friend told me who is male, these men, when they think about European women, their only knowledge or acquaintance with European women or white women is through Hollywood movies, pornography and so on. And so they come extremely prejudice thinking these women are prey. They're there for the taking and their men do not protect them. And so that is why for them it seems sort of natural to play the rape game in their twos and threes and more.

And they look at this women and they attack them, they have no empathy for them. And I was talking to some of the perpetrators and witnessed some of these court cases, the men, even after they're convicted or during the trial process, everyone is looking for them to express some sign of remorse and there is none. There is no empathy. There is not remorse because the men who perpetrate these acts don't think that they've done something wrong. In fact, many of them feel that something wrong is been done to them by dragging them to court or sentencing them. So it's just a glaring culture, a glaring clash of cultures and values and a clash of civilizations.

I think that if you have people who are Muslim, but not Islamist, when they come into Europe or America, if you take them through a process of immersion in the values, the norms, the culture of democracy and liberalism and tolerance and equality, that's one thing. If you just say, "Well, you're welcome and you have access to all the services that the welfare state has to offer, which is free shelter, free education, free health care, free food." But you don't educate them, they end up going to the Islamist platforms or rather the Islamist platforms come and recruit them and preach at them.

And so, I think it's an understatement to say that there is this clash of values, but right now it's the Islamists who are working very, very hard through their channels of dour or proselytization to win the hearts and the minds of the immigrants, refugees, the asylum seekers, the European leadership is doing very, very little to win their hearts and minds. They're giving them free food and free healthcare, but they are not giving them or encouraging them to take any part of their values and their norms.

https://www.biola.edu/blogs/think-biblically/2021/immigration-islam-womens-rights

Immigration, Islam and Women's Rights

Since mass migration from Africa and the Middle East into Europe since 2015, there has been a marked increase in the sexual assault and harassment of women, especially in public in Europe. Women's rights activist and best selling author Ayaan Hirsi...

https://www.biola.edu/blogs/think-biblically/2021/immigration-islam-womens-rights

Hollyohara · 25/08/2025 16:13

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12476771.amp

Another example of Muslim men respecting women. Similar to Copenhagen.

Senior CBS correspondent Lara Logan is recovering in hospital in the US after she was beaten and sexually assaulted by a mob while covering the Egyptian protests, the US network says.

It says the attack occurred on Friday in Cairo's packed Tahrir Square after President Hosni Mubarak stepped down.
Ms Logan became separated from her crew and was rescued by women and soldiers.
The Committee to Protect Journalists has said 52 journalists were assaulted and 76 detained during events in Egypt.

The New York-based group said all of them had since been released.

BBC News

Lara Logan of CBS attacked by Egyptian mob in Cairo - BBC News

Correspondent Lara Logan is recovering after she was beaten and sexually attacked while reporting on Egypt's protests, US network CBS says.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12476771.amp

Hollyohara · 25/08/2025 16:21

Pakistan has huge problems. This poor poor women is only an example of how they can treat women.

Do we think that mindset disappears when the men who treat women and girls this way, cross borders?

https://www.dawn.com/news/1927851

Marital rape: Why Shanti’s case is a test for Pakistan’s justice system

This is the story of Shanti: a young bride whose death from marital rape reveals how Pakistan’s women remain unprotected by both society and state, despite the law.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1927851

Hollyohara · 25/08/2025 16:24

Government surveys reveal grim realities: the Pakistan Demographic and Health Survey (PDHS) reported that 47 per cent of respondents in 2012–2013 considered wife-beating justifiable — a figure that only slightly declined to 43pc by 2017–2018.

The World Economic Forum’s (WEF) 2023 data paints an even darker picture, showing that 85pc of married women in Pakistan experience physical or sexual violence — far higher than Bangladesh’s 53pc and India’s 29pc.

Islamabad-based gender and governance expert Fauzia Yazdani highlights how religious texts and traditions are often deliberately misinterpreted to justify abuse. Supporting Yazdani’s view, lawyer Bushra notes that women brave enough to seek justice frequently face defence attorneys citing selective Quranic verses to defend their husbands. “It’s not just disturbing — it’s deeply problematic,” Bushra said.

Attitudes Toward Wife Beating in Pakistan: Over-Time Comparative Trends by Gender - PMC

We investigate the determinants and over time patterns of perceptions toward wife beating from 2012 to 2018 in Pakistan. We use two waves of the Pakistan Demographic and Health Survey that include ever-married women and men aged 15 to 49 (12,607 ...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11702125/#bibr61-10778012241234891

CunningLinguist2 · 25/08/2025 16:33

Swiftie1878 · 23/08/2025 13:41

A ‘certain type of person’?
OK.

I don’t agree with the protests outside these hotels, but refuse to vilify people who are often genuinely frightened for themselves, their children and their communities.
Having several hundred men turn up in your town, mostly from cultures that don’t view women in the way we do in the West, and who have nothing to do but loiter around town in groups together must be very disconcerting.

Having empathy for the immigrants is of course desirable, but some empathy for those living with the fall-out from the governmental failures in handling them should also be considered.

Nah... Have you seen them on the news? They are RW thugs and yobs, "big men" giving "small willy energy" and trying to intimidate others whilst having nothing better to do on a bank holiday w/e. Tommy Robinson wannabes and Farage supporters. They're representing precisely zero British values and probably couldn't tell you what they were if they tried.

(BTW: democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs.)

CunningLinguist2 · 25/08/2025 16:34

PrincessofWells · 23/08/2025 14:25

Really?

She may mean this type of "mother"... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yl7p4l11po

mrshoho · 25/08/2025 16:55

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MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 17:01

2017 UN Women and Promundo survey in four Middle Eastern and North African countries (Egypt, Lebanon, Morocco, Palestine) found that 90% of the men surveyed admitted to harassing women in public because they found it fun.

The Survey

Who: UN Women and Promundo conducted the International Men and Gender Equality Survey (IMAGES) in the Middle East and North Africa.
Where: The study focused on men in Egypt, Lebanon, Morocco, and Palestine.
Why: It aimed to understand men's views and experiences related to gender and gender equality, including the extent of street harassment.

MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 17:25

This reply has been deleted

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I think part of the problem is that people aren't really aware of the extent of it. The narrative is usually that asylum seekers are desperate individuals fleeing war torn hellholes. Of course this is true for some but not for all.

And of course it's entirely possible to be oppressed whilst simultaneously being an oppressor. This seems to be something that a lot of progressive people struggle to reconcile (not meaning that snarkily). Hirsi Ali talks about this in some of her articles. The hierarchy of something. Basically that many Western feminists will prioritise men of an ethnic minority over the women of their own country due to the victimhood matrix or whatever it's called.

I've certainly witnessed this. One prominent example was a white American news anchor (female) taking great umbrage and trying to denounce Ali as a racist bigot - wrote a really long self righteous article about it. I've also seen threads on here in the feminist section where posters were trying to insinuate she was some kind of an alt right darling, which couldn't be further from the truth.

In reality, I think it's not dissimilar to the way some people have been trying to conflate 'terfs' with the far right in an effort to undermine them. However, gender critics oppose the TRA lobby for different reasons to the far right - for reasons relating to women's rights rather than just homophobia/traditionalist views.

Similarly, Hirsi-Ali speaks out against radical Islam for reasons relating to women's rights rather than simple xenophobia as with the far right. But her comments on western feminists have definitely ruffled some feathers.

Anyway, I'm waffling a bit now, but I think it's important to point out that criticising elements of Islam is not inherently racist because it's principally about culture and religious ideologies rather than ethnicity, even if certain races are inherently associated with Islam. Nobody in the West has much of an issue with Sikhs or Hindus by contrast.

LlttledrummergirI · 25/08/2025 17:26

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Who is importing it?

Hollyohara · 25/08/2025 17:30

MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 17:25

I think part of the problem is that people aren't really aware of the extent of it. The narrative is usually that asylum seekers are desperate individuals fleeing war torn hellholes. Of course this is true for some but not for all.

And of course it's entirely possible to be oppressed whilst simultaneously being an oppressor. This seems to be something that a lot of progressive people struggle to reconcile (not meaning that snarkily). Hirsi Ali talks about this in some of her articles. The hierarchy of something. Basically that many Western feminists will prioritise men of an ethnic minority over the women of their own country due to the victimhood matrix or whatever it's called.

I've certainly witnessed this. One prominent example was a white American news anchor (female) taking great umbrage and trying to denounce Ali as a racist bigot - wrote a really long self righteous article about it. I've also seen threads on here in the feminist section where posters were trying to insinuate she was some kind of an alt right darling, which couldn't be further from the truth.

In reality, I think it's not dissimilar to the way some people have been trying to conflate 'terfs' with the far right in an effort to undermine them. However, gender critics oppose the TRA lobby for different reasons to the far right - for reasons relating to women's rights rather than just homophobia/traditionalist views.

Similarly, Hirsi-Ali speaks out against radical Islam for reasons relating to women's rights rather than simple xenophobia as with the far right. But her comments on western feminists have definitely ruffled some feathers.

Anyway, I'm waffling a bit now, but I think it's important to point out that criticising elements of Islam is not inherently racist because it's principally about culture and religious ideologies rather than ethnicity, even if certain races are inherently associated with Islam. Nobody in the West has much of an issue with Sikhs or Hindus by contrast.

Thanks. Not waffling at all. Everything you said / Ali said, makes sense. Makes more sense that most things we have to contend with.

Hollyohara · 25/08/2025 17:32

‘And of course it's entirely possible to be oppressed whilst simultaneously being an oppressor. This seems to be something that a lot of progressive people struggle to reconcile (not meaning that snarkily).

Hirsi Ali talks about this in some of her articles. The hierarchy of something. Basically that many Western feminists will prioritise men of an ethnic minority over the women of their own country due to the victimhood matrix or whatever it's called.’

Yes 💯. There are a few of those on MN.

Hollyohara · 25/08/2025 17:34

‘Feminism is an incredibly splintered concept, and the late-stage feminism which dominates Western institutions today is more confusing and paradoxical than ever before.

Think of the platitudes which Hollywood actors repeat in their Oscar speeches. A contrived hierarchy of oppressed groups governs feminist rhetoric and has generated several paradoxes, some of which I will discuss today.

Indeed, so-called “progressive” feminism defends hierarchy far more than any standard conservative would. Most importantly, this feminism ignores Islamic misogyny in the developing world – and, increasingly, on Western shores. Today I will baptize it “luxury feminism.” ‘

Perfect description of the bollocks some people speak.

For thinking that the migrant protests ...
MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 17:46

And we have a bit of a deadlock where European authorities don't want to publish the facts for fear of riling up the Tommy Robinson lot, but they then achieve exactly that when the facts finally come out.

Like with Rotherham and the NYE assaults all over Germany (police initially ignored them then tried to censor any mention of race, even after 1200 reported sexual assaults in one night). And then the 40 sexual assaults at that concert in Stockholm where the police were apparently turning people away who tried to raise concerns, and then following the event claimed it had been 'largely uneventful'.

And the authorities are very reluctant to publish the data. Hirsi-Ali has compiled some of what there is available in her book and it's pretty concerning tbh. Basically, for every European country where the data is available sex crimes have risen in conjunction with the levels of immigration, with the greatest increases being seen in the countries having taken the greatest number of asylum seekers (or it may be illegal immigrants, I'm not sure which it was).

I also remember reading that in France recent immigrants were now responsible for around 20% of 'serious sex crimes' which is the category including rape, despite them comprising between 1-2% of the population. There was also another country (I forget which) where 50% of gang rapes over the previous five years had been perpetrated by recent immigrants who again made up only a few percent of the population. Then there were also lots of stats showing large increases in things like sexual coercion and groping offences.

It's difficult to talk about it without sounding like you have an agenda but really that's just because the vast majority of people don't really read the data. It's not unlike how women were being called hateful bigots for challenging trans ideology when in reality they just didn't want male sex offenders being housed with vulnerable women, men competing in women's sports, and grown males being able to follow the girls swimming team into the locker room and get undressed with them.

If there was no risk then there wouldn't be any need to talk about it.

mrshoho · 25/08/2025 17:49

MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 17:25

I think part of the problem is that people aren't really aware of the extent of it. The narrative is usually that asylum seekers are desperate individuals fleeing war torn hellholes. Of course this is true for some but not for all.

And of course it's entirely possible to be oppressed whilst simultaneously being an oppressor. This seems to be something that a lot of progressive people struggle to reconcile (not meaning that snarkily). Hirsi Ali talks about this in some of her articles. The hierarchy of something. Basically that many Western feminists will prioritise men of an ethnic minority over the women of their own country due to the victimhood matrix or whatever it's called.

I've certainly witnessed this. One prominent example was a white American news anchor (female) taking great umbrage and trying to denounce Ali as a racist bigot - wrote a really long self righteous article about it. I've also seen threads on here in the feminist section where posters were trying to insinuate she was some kind of an alt right darling, which couldn't be further from the truth.

In reality, I think it's not dissimilar to the way some people have been trying to conflate 'terfs' with the far right in an effort to undermine them. However, gender critics oppose the TRA lobby for different reasons to the far right - for reasons relating to women's rights rather than just homophobia/traditionalist views.

Similarly, Hirsi-Ali speaks out against radical Islam for reasons relating to women's rights rather than simple xenophobia as with the far right. But her comments on western feminists have definitely ruffled some feathers.

Anyway, I'm waffling a bit now, but I think it's important to point out that criticising elements of Islam is not inherently racist because it's principally about culture and religious ideologies rather than ethnicity, even if certain races are inherently associated with Islam. Nobody in the West has much of an issue with Sikhs or Hindus by contrast.

Thank you again for this factual and truthful reality. My last post was reported and deleted so have reworded.

mrshoho · 25/08/2025 17:52

MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 17:46

And we have a bit of a deadlock where European authorities don't want to publish the facts for fear of riling up the Tommy Robinson lot, but they then achieve exactly that when the facts finally come out.

Like with Rotherham and the NYE assaults all over Germany (police initially ignored them then tried to censor any mention of race, even after 1200 reported sexual assaults in one night). And then the 40 sexual assaults at that concert in Stockholm where the police were apparently turning people away who tried to raise concerns, and then following the event claimed it had been 'largely uneventful'.

And the authorities are very reluctant to publish the data. Hirsi-Ali has compiled some of what there is available in her book and it's pretty concerning tbh. Basically, for every European country where the data is available sex crimes have risen in conjunction with the levels of immigration, with the greatest increases being seen in the countries having taken the greatest number of asylum seekers (or it may be illegal immigrants, I'm not sure which it was).

I also remember reading that in France recent immigrants were now responsible for around 20% of 'serious sex crimes' which is the category including rape, despite them comprising between 1-2% of the population. There was also another country (I forget which) where 50% of gang rapes over the previous five years had been perpetrated by recent immigrants who again made up only a few percent of the population. Then there were also lots of stats showing large increases in things like sexual coercion and groping offences.

It's difficult to talk about it without sounding like you have an agenda but really that's just because the vast majority of people don't really read the data. It's not unlike how women were being called hateful bigots for challenging trans ideology when in reality they just didn't want male sex offenders being housed with vulnerable women, men competing in women's sports, and grown males being able to follow the girls swimming team into the locker room and get undressed with them.

If there was no risk then there wouldn't be any need to talk about it.

What an outstandingly brave woman she is. Why would anyone wish for her murder when all she is doing is speaking out and trying to help women?

MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 18:06

This reply has been deleted

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ThatWaryOchreQuoter · 25/08/2025 18:11

Ihateboris · 25/08/2025 13:53

I don't want to fund the Royal Family, but I have no choice.

You just have to get the majority to agree with you and then you have a case. The problem is that the majority have been against mass immigration and illegal immigration for years/decades now and are consistently ignored and sometimes vilified.

Alternatively, you could stand outside Buckingham palace waving a Union Jack?

PistachioTiramisuLimoncello · 25/08/2025 18:30

I think that the ignorant, bigoted “protestors” should be rounded up snd locked up for inciting racial hated. along with that arsehole Fararge.

Hollyohara · 25/08/2025 18:50

PistachioTiramisuLimoncello · 25/08/2025 18:30

I think that the ignorant, bigoted “protestors” should be rounded up snd locked up for inciting racial hated. along with that arsehole Fararge.

How would one differentiate between protestors with genuine concern for women and girls safety, and the ‘ignorant, bigoted’ protestors?

And when one has ‘rounded up and locked up’ the ‘ignorant and bigoted’ protestors, what does one do with the protestors with concern for women and girls safety?

PistachioTiramisuLimoncello · 25/08/2025 18:57

Hollyohara · 25/08/2025 18:50

How would one differentiate between protestors with genuine concern for women and girls safety, and the ‘ignorant, bigoted’ protestors?

And when one has ‘rounded up and locked up’ the ‘ignorant and bigoted’ protestors, what does one do with the protestors with concern for women and girls safety?

Funnily enough they are pretty easy to spot since aren’t nearly so concerned concerned about white immigrants…

MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 19:03

Wow, the irony of my message about people reporting posts to get them deleted....being reported and deleted. 🤣

Presumably it's not against the talk guidelines to say that some people will repeatedly ask for statistics and then when provided won't engage and will passively aggressively report the post instead.

MoneyTaIks · 25/08/2025 19:17

PistachioTiramisuLimoncello · 25/08/2025 18:57

Funnily enough they are pretty easy to spot since aren’t nearly so concerned concerned about white immigrants…

But these Tommy Robinson types are just a red herring. There do seem to be genuine issues around the treatment of women in Islamic culture and reluctance by some to engage with the cultural norms and laws of the west as most other religions have.

Yes, there are some pretty vile people that just want to stir up racial hatred, and yes there are white immigrants that commit crime too. However, 1200 Egypt-style sexual assaults in one evening in one western country is pretty much unheard of in recent history. And that's just the one example. If you read the many hundreds of accounts from the victims they're not describing the perpetrators as white immigrants - they're definitely not from Ukraine!

Yes, it's an uncomfortable truth and one that causes racial tensions but it is the truth nonetheless and shouldn't be ignored. Talking about lager swilling thugs waving Union Jack flags is just whataboutery and entirely unrelated to any of the numerous sexual assaults.

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