To think single mothers are judged harshly because deep down society still thinks kids need fathers more than mothers admit?

[ByFirmTealViewer]

The way single mums get talked about is brutal. AIBU to think it’s because people still believe kids fundamentally need fathers, even if no one says it out loud?

I never hear negative things said by men about absent fathers. Women, yes, they'll discuss at school gates whether so and so's dad has got another one pregnant or is gambling and drinking still or whatever, but men? No, they'll happily go out drinking with them and watch them hook up with someone else and start the cycle again. They wouldn't ever think to warn the new woman.

If they are out drinking with them then pressumably they are friends?

I wasnt talking about men anyway as it's mainly women's opinions I hear. Women do make up 50% of the population so not a minority.

@jonthebatiste

Women and men need to choose their partners carefully 💁. Why enter into a partnership where you can imagine the person disrespecting you, being untrustworthy

Very few people deliberately enter into a partnership with someone they believe will be untrustworthy. As I’m sure you know.

This board is full of threads from women whose husbands have cheated on them/abused or disrespected them who never saw it coming. Who thought they were married to a solid, respectable and loving person. Until they weren’t. People don’t come with a built in bar code that tells the world they are a wrong un and an awful lot of people hide character flaws until some time into a partnership.

Of course people should stay away from screaming red flags but thats the tip of the iceberg in terms of problematic behaviour. Saying that people need to choose their partners to avoid this is basically victim blaming with a veneer of respectability.

I wish! I've been judged for being a student single mum. Apparently if I could study (to improve myself and get a better job) I should have worked.
When i worked PT I was told I should work more.
When I worked FT I was told I should work more. I was also told I should work less. I was told I should get a better paid job.

Its misogyny. Pure and simple. I've got a friend who's a single dad. All our mutual friends think he's some kind of hero. And heaven forbid he should work. He's got a 15 year old child to look after don't you know!

I don't think this is because they are judging the woman more harshly.

I think there is a recognition that most of the time the woman has a lot more to lose if she acts foolishly and chooses a shit man.

That's not saying it's fair, but it is how things play out a lot of the time.

I've known a few instances where it was the other way. I have a sort of distant cousin who got involved with a woman everyone knew was going to be a problem. Terrible mother when he met her, not very smart but worse, massively lazy, didn't wash on the regular, couldn't keep a job. He had some issues too, both were horrific at housekeeping, but he held down a good job. But they had a kid together and it went as you'd expect and now he has primary care of his own child and also the stepchild.

Everyone wondered what he was thinking and thought he was being an idiot, not only in the family, but in the town. And knew that a child with her would suffer.

I honestly don’t hear single mothers talked about in any way other than ‘how do they do it?’

Well I think that children absolutely benefit from having good, decent fathers. But I wouldn't judge 'single mothers' - I do not know their story and being a single parent is not something that many people actively choose.

Exactly very little commitment or planning today.

Men have to blame women, because if it isn’t the women’s fault then it must be the men who leave’s fault, and deep down they identify more with them than with the women. They don’t want to be associated with that blame.

I'm not sure that it's true that no one enters into, sometimes marriage but more often a common law relationship,marriage with the idea they will be cheated on.

There are people who seem to live very differernt lives which are very fraught and where cheating, side-girlfriends, screaming fits, and strings of partners are the norm. It's really bad for the kids.

do some people think women have the power to make men stick around, not be abusive, be a good parent, be respectful loving partner, etc?

are single mums simply the women who missed out on these powers?

or is there an expectation that women should selflessly stay with a lousy partner “for the kids”?

Of course children need fathers.

People would judge men/absent fathers more by that logic. Which wouldn’t ever happen lol. So no I don’t think that’s why, instead I will plump for good old misogyny.

It’s because everything is women’s fault

I judge women who set out to have children without a father. As the first donor children become adults the issues with that are beginning to become apparent. People have a need to know their genetic history as well as their 'social' one. Many adopted adults also have this deep desire to find their genetic parents.

First post nailed it.

You dont know anyone who wouldnt judge an absent father more harshly?

I think one of the issues is that women are still pushed into having children. Society expects it. Look on here at how childfree women say they are treated. People question why they don’t have children. By the way I never ask anyone if they have children or why they don’t have them.
Next, I know of many women who have been refused sterilisation, even when this was needed for health reasons. Yet men are not routinely refused sterilisation.
I also hear women ( and men) banging on about grandchildren, as if that makes them and their children better somehow.
Next, there is a serious lack of decent young men to have children with. A lot of women have children with older men, who often already have children meaning there are existing children are from broken homes. Again this isn’t a good scenario.
Lots of fathers just don’t pull their weight.
Lots of women don’t seem to care who they have children with. I’m not talking about first time parents. I’m talking about people who have children with men and women who have already proven themselves to be feckless.
Use your brain. If he or she already has several children before the age of 30, then they are not a great choice.
In the main, these parents don’t commit time or money to these existing children, then oh surprise, surprise when the new relationship fails they are still the dreadful, useless parent they were already showing themselves to be.
Again, totally different for first time parents as you have no idea who great or bad someone will turn out to be.

Also men are not made accountable for their actions.
They just move on to the next woman.
The government allows them to use the new women’s children in order to reduce the amount of maintenance they pay to their own children.
How on earth is this ok?
I say men because in the vast majority if cases it’s men who are the NRP.

It makes sense because the man still needs money to live on so it might be financially difficult to pay the same when more children are added. Like you said in your first post- if someone already has kids when you meet them it's something to consider isnt it.

I remember when single mothers were to blame for all the UK ills according to the redtops.
Prejudice is still alive and well in the UK.
Every disadvantaged and marginalised group get their turn to be the scapegoat.

Anchorage56 no it isn’t right.
If a man leaves his wife and decides he doesn’t want to provide for HIS children then the law supports him by the following:
Let’s say the CMS ( or whatever name they go by now) says he must pay 20% of his DECLARED earnings. Then he shacks up with a woman who happens to already have children. These children are already supported by their father. The law allows the man to have his maintenance contribution reduced to say 15% of his declared earnings.
How on earth is that fair?
His children suffer.
I don’t care if he then goes on to have more children,
My own opinion is that the children from the first marriage should come first. If he was still with his wife, then they would have to cut back on their own spending or not have any more children. It would not be a case of ‘ oh well our existing children won’t eat today,’ but we will go on holiday with our new child.’
But back to my initial point.
The children the new woman has should be irrelevant to the man’s own children in terms of finances.
They have their own father financially supporting them.

But if he is paying maintenance then he is supporting his own children. And dont forget when relationships break down its wrong to assume that its always the man to blame, which is the vibe I'm getting from your wording. Life doesn't have to end after the breakdown of a relationship. A man and woman are allowed to try again, are allowed to find love again which may result in other children being in the picture. And just because those rules exist doesnt mean all men follow them, I've known men who paid their ex partners more than is set out by the government calculations. Not everyone goes through unamicable separations.

how is it fair that subsequent children, who are completely blameless, suffer?

I was speaking generally. As a society.