Marks & Spencers bra fittings and trans women - they've missed the point

[IdaGlossop]

A mother complained to M&S when her daughter was approached in-store by a trans woman asking if she could be of assistance. The daughter needed a bra fitting and was upset as she could see that the member of staff was male. M&S apologised.

Today, in response to the incident, M&S have announced that bra fittings are for biological women only. The solution to the mother's complaint is to not deploy trans women staff in the lingerie department! Banning trans women from having bra fittings discriminates against trans women and doesn't solve the original problem.

YANBU = M&S have messed up with this decision
YABU = Banning trans women from bra fittings protects biological women from being offered bra fittings by trans women staff

www.thepinknews.com/2025/08/18/ms-bra-fitting-trans/

Are U on some goooood drugs or wat?

The male has no reason to believe the 14 year old girl was lost as she was in the correct location to purchase the items of underwear that she was looking for.

As the 14 year old girl was in the underwear department it is not appropiate for a male stranger to offer her help in underwear selection. That applies even if the male is employed by M&S

But what is "trans"?

You see the trouble with pushing for a philosophical system whereby anybody can "identify" as anything, and by doing so become that thing, is that definitions get blurred beyond the point where they have any meaning. So of course a man who is an AGP - which may not be what you understand as "trans" - can identify as trans. And in the system that you promote, "identifying as" equals being (viz "Trans women are women").

Ergo AGPs are trans, ergo (some) trans people are AGPs.

QED. Do you see the problem now?

1. the employee shouldn't have been in that section, he was assigned to another floor

2. he approached the girl when he thought she was on her own

3. it is never any man's job to approach a lone girl, unprompted in the lingerie department when shopping for bras. If you think it is, that's a red flag on you also.

I had a middle aged man wearing a pink crop tshirt sitting in my living room telling me he’s actually a teenage girl doing through puberty. It absolutely is a fetish.

Park life!

My adult son claims to be trans, is currently in prison for 2 years for illegal images, meaning he broke his SHPO. The SHPO that he got 5 years ago age 18 from being a porn addicted fetishisist that was (very sadly) groomed online as a teenager by other porn addicted fetishists. He also groomed and corrupted his younger brother who also believes he is now a woman despite wearing exclusively male clothes and doing absolutely nothing that could be considered typically female or feminine in nature. Thankfully we/the police stepped in before the younger one was complicit in any illegal activities and he’s fine now. But please, don’t you dare tell me that rampant sexual fetish and male entitlement has nothing to do with transgenderism.

You have zero idea about the harm that transgenderism causes as the skinny end of the wedge. Behind the scenes within families, to children and loved ones. You can’t even begin to grasp the selfishness that one man’s need for validation and sexual satisfaction can cause to the people around them. It’s not dropping a pebble in a pretty pond and watching the ripples gently spread. It’s like dropping a hand grenade into a fish tank. It destroys the tank. Then within a few seconds it kills the fish, shreds the plants. Within a few hours its destroyed the floors. Then you have damp and mould for months. It’s destruction in the name of self serving satisfaction that benefits ONE PERSON and destroys everybody around them. So fuck off with your bullshit.

Oh sweet summer child.

Not only do I know some men who identify as trans for fetish purposes, but I have done the thing that many trans activists urge us to do and listen to trans people. You wouldn’t believe what they tell us about the array of fetishes.

It may not be intentional in all cases but it’s there.

Biological women shouldn't be expected to fit bras on men, nor should they be expected to have a bra fitting conducted by a man. It's very simple

I’m so sorry for the impact this unbelievably destructive policy has had on your family.

I read somewhere about the power of fetishes on men and how they become all encompassing as the need for boundary transgression escalates.

I’m so glad you could help your younger son and I hope your older son finds treatment one day that will help him and maybe bring him back to you. In the meantime we do what we can and raise awareness of this insidious darkness in society and push those in power to deal with it.

I remain gobsmacked at the women determined to defend these men and their behaviour. They are a major part of the problem imo.

@IdaGlossop they don’t want a dedicated space & specialist fitting service. They want to go into the women’s changing room.

This is the crocs of it. They believe they are women and they are not.

🙄 This isn't a HP Lovecraft story, it's about men in bras.

Yes, although in many cases I have a feeling they don’t actually believe they are women.

Women in general tend to be much more aware of the needs of others and far less likely to insert themselves into spaces where they know they would make others feel uncomfortable or distressed. (For the anti woman posters on here, obviously I’m not saying that if you are a woman who doesn’t display those behaviours you are not a real woman but this is a well observed and documented generalisation)

These men at best know they cause distress and don’t care and at worst, our distress is part of the thrill.

We used to know this about men as a society but it feels like so many people have had their brains wiped.

Me too!!!

The places where they like to be seen as inclusive & providing mixed gender toilets etc are actually taking away the opportunity for them to go into a women’s space. So actually not doing what they want.

But they have to be pink crocs with sparkles on...

Sorry I couldn't resist it was such a good typo!

I have. More then most. It very clearly is.

It's amazing how far out-of-bounds the story went. Firstly, the mother said that the shop assistant was biologically male, which UNLESS they had their willy out and flapping it all about, they don't know who is biologically female or male. As there have been numerous videos of biological females being harassed by Karens who said they were trans, and had to contact police to have them removed, because "they just knew" in their own warped sense of judge and jury. All that needed to be said was "no thank you" and then move on, but they needed to embarrass everyone around, likely including the daughter (who didn't say anything btw), about the situation. M&S likely goes through a vigorous screening process before hiring any employees, and they were likely confident with their hiring of this person. However, with this incident, I'm reminded of how many women who worked in the men's department stores would embarrass me growing up by having to check the inseam of my trousers and hating where they had to check everything and my own mother discussing if they got the right measurements by double checking them. Why not just do physical examinations of everyone's genitalia, male and female, as well as psychological testing, the Rorschach test while we're at it to make sure they have no ill-conceived nefarious thoughts. All I can say is that anyone who believe "only biological women should be bra fitters" had better check to see if they have a lesbian membership card. Now that, may be a lot worse than a hysterical woman who believes she has x-ray vision and can see people's genitalia through their clothes, just like they have at the airports.

Ah! A bloke who thinks he knows it all.

Have you any idea about how many woman are sexually assaulted in their lifetime? I think it’s about 65%. Staggering figures. Just staggering! Men are a threat to women. Did you think the lady measuring your inside leg was about to sexually assault you? Probably not, because you’re a bloke and sexual assault isn’t something that happens to the vast majority of men in their lifetime, so it’s not something that crosses most men’s minds. Unlike women. Who think about this daily. Have you any idea what that’s like? And then to be told that you have to put up with men in a single sex space just cause they feel like being there? Terrifying to so many women. But this wouldn’t have occurred to most men. Try being sexually assaulted by the opposite sex - I am early 50s and have been assaulted 4 times so far - and see how you’d feel about blokes then.

“Oh but they feel like a women so let them be!”. Fuck off over that far horizon, and when they’ve got there, fuck off quite a bit further, please.

Are you getting a little inkling of an understanding about this yet?

So are you saying you can’t tell a make from a female unless they’re undressed? Have you visited an optician lately? I think you’re due a visit. I find Boots really good. Or Vision express.

Exactly. The whole ‘Tickle v Giggle’ story in Australia is about how AI identified male faces with an 85% success rate, and women taking a look at the pictures identified the rest of the blokes pretending to be women.

And if a women insisted I was a bloke in the women’s loos I’d have no qualms about setting her right because I - as a women - know how terrifying a man who thought he had the right to waltz into a women’s loo could be.

Good men stay out so bad men stand out.

Ooh, my. You really went all out to hit all the boxes on the bingo card there, didn't you? Lesbians, running about with genitals out, xray vision, claims that it's impossible to tell and as a special bonus, an insulting term for women!

I mean, your utterly batshit stream of consciousness is almost a 'how to' for TRA's scolding women.

I expect you're getting a round of applause from the 'get those bitches telt' crowd.

If someone wants to create that business (and the products for it) then that’s up to them. They can decide if there is enough if a market sbd where to put their shops. It isn’t incumbent on M&S to do this. They make bras for women and girls. They have a fitting service for women and girls. By clarifying who their service is for, they are protecting their customers and their staff.

Someone on here pointed out last week that for the majority of TW its not the spaces but the women in them that are important.
If a woman worked in a male only workspace and a toilet was set aside solely for them I imagine the woman would be delighted. If it was a women only workplace and a toilet was set aside solely for TW I imagine they would not want to use it
Its women as props