To ask those who are not white brittish how they feel about the flags?

[PicaK]

Birmingham and Tower Hamlets are having St George England flags put up by privately funded groups.
I'm horrified by the implicit racism. I've seen a lot of white people applauding this and "time we took back the country" comments.
I haven't seen many non white people commenting. My feel is that they are too intimidated to do so. Am I right? Or is it indifference or is it that you're dealing with racism on a daily level and this is just one more thing.
Please don't post if you're white.whatever you feel about the flags. I want to hear on white viewd

The Nazis actually never won an election outright. Ironically, their polling numbers were actually declining when Hitler became Chancellor. They were the largest party in the Reichstag, but they didn’t win a majority vote.

They came into power because of back room dealing which was part of a larger power struggle between two former chancellors, Von Papen and Von Schleicher.

There's a good, but chilling, TV program by Simon Schama called The Road to Auschwitz. He describes how anti-semitism was rife across much of Europe and how savage progroms occurred early on in Lithuania. It was certainly not contained in just the German population.

He also looks at the idea that 'it would never happen here' (UK) by looking at what happened in the Netherlands, whose population he suggests was similar to Britain's. At first the locals held out against the Nazis, but their support actually made the Nazi attacks even worse. It's all really sad, but food for thought.

It's on BBC iplayer, and I think he has written a book.

(Edit: missed a word out)

No. That's a bit of a leap from what I said!

What did people think was going to happen? That we’d put increasingly large efforts into celebrating minority identities, but the majority population wouldn’t start wanting the same?

Somewhat disingenuous patriot.

No there aren’t, what are you talking about? In the US you can’t throw a stone without hitting a US flag.

Oh right. I must have been imagining it, 3 weeks ago, in the US then.

They can stop protesting, they won! The US doesn’t have a King.

OK then, but ‘billions’ ? Really ?

You obviously don't understand. Do a quick Google.

That’s what the thread is about

Well maybe, but the point is this was absolutely inevitable. You simply cannot have rapid large-scale non-assimilating migration without this happening. If you’re on the other side there’s no point complaining about it, because it’s the policies you like which have awoken the beast.

I’ve read his ‘History of the Jews’ - two volumes and I believe he’s writing a third.

The rise of the far right is inevitable? They need people to follow them and carry out their "protests".

What's really sad is that the St George's Cross flag has been adopted by racists to get a point across. However much you'd like to ignore it.

There have been MN threads where people say, "Should I buy a house with a George Cross flag planted outside, " and the posters invariably say no. It's racist in a way the Scottish flag just isn't. Or the Irish and Welsh. It might be acceptable if there's a footy match on, but really, I think I'm far from alone in thinking this.

Same way my delightful gym friend is always trying to hide the British Bulldog tattoo on his calf. He tells me "people think I'm racist." He's not, but they do think that.

When in the Highlands recently I saw the Caithness flag flown as well as the Saltire, and I thought that was wonderful! Unfortunately some groups have made me pause before flying the flag of St George in my London suburb. I admire efforts by moderate people to reclaim the national flag but unfortunately it still has a huge negative connotation. It shouldn't, but it does.

"...'It would never happen here (UK)'..."

It would have happened in the UK, it's just that Britain (unlike the Netherlands) was able to give the persecuted and decimated Jewish diaspora something so that they didn't settle en masse in the UK after WW2: the Balfour Declaration. And look what's happening as a consequence of that.

Having said that, it's extremely heartening to see so, so many Brits wanting to be counted as standing against the genocide, ethnic cleansing and mass starvation that's happening in Palestine. Maybe it wouldn't have happened in the UK without a serious fight on home territory - perhaps the 1940s/50s versions of today's protestors would have stood up to be counted as necessary back then too. I think so. I said it in my first post and I'll say it again in this last post of mine: I firmly believe the majority of Brits are decent and non-racist people. That's my experience of decades of life there and as I get older this opinion is only reinforced. Skinheads and BNP pigs were a feature in my life from the 70s and they existed well before that (Moseley and predecessors). They still exist, they're just a different flavour these days. But they don't represent the majority of Brits in my opinion and experience, and never have.

I’m non white british (black) and see absolutely no problem with people flying the St George flag with pride in their country. It’s a reach to call it racism and I wish to see way more English flags flown around. Patriotism is a good thing!

Let’s be honest. This new drama about putting up flags is just the far right making a point. They weren’t that bothered a decade ago.

@MavisandHetty

I said it in my first post and I'll say it again in this last post of mine: I firmly believe the majority of Brits are decent and non-racist people. That's my experience of decades of life there and as I get older this opinion is only reinforced. Skinheads and BNP pigs were a feature in my life from the 70s and they existed well before that (Moseley and predecessors). They still exist, they're just a different flavour these days. But they don't represent the majority of Brits in my opinion and experience, and never have.

Well said. ^ Great post!

What's really sad is that the St George's Cross flag has been adopted by racists to get a point across. However much you'd like to ignore it

Yes, yes it has. There are plenty of British people, such as myself who are patriotic, but now feel uncomfortable with the way the England flag has been hijacked. It doesn’t make me any less patriotic or mean that I hate this country like multiple (not particularly bright) posters have suggested. It just means that we’re not comfortable any more by the large group of people that claim to speak on our, as British peoples, behalf, and if we don’t agree with them we aren’t patriotic.

bollocks to that

Patriotism to me, what is great about being British in my personal opinion is;

The fact we never judged on colour or creed (although some have always done this) and treated everyone with respect, on their own merit

Humility. The ability to know when to shut the fuck up.

And inclusivity. We jusge only on actions and not on eg skin colour or sexuality or nationality or religion or whether someone is white British or not.

that’s all in the bin now

All those have gone out the window this last decade, and as such, although I’m a patriot, I’m in dismay with the direction of this country now, largely down to the likes of Farage and his followers. So for that reason I choose not to fly and England flag any time soon.

And what a load of depressing nonsense certain people have spouted on this thread.

@xanthomelana · Today 16:47

I’m glad I’m Welsh and we can fly our flag without being accused of racism. I’ve never understood why the English beat themselves up so much over a flag and the rest of the UK proudly fly theirs.
I don’t understand the link between certain groups and the English flag either. The Welsh independence movement use ours and even though I don’t agree with what they stand for it doesn’t taint the flag in any shape or form. One group of people doesn’t own a national flag and disapproving of people who display it is madness.

Hallelujah! I think most people feel like this, and it's only a certain type of English person who is offended by the English flag. Most people don't give a shit about it. As the poll on this thread proves (and many of the posts.)The social justice warriors are the ones who beat themselves up, and fly around the moon to try to find reasons that people should not fly an England flag. Shouting nasty bigoted shit at people who do. I don't beat MYself up. I will fly my England flag whenever I bloody well want to, and quite honestly, I give zero shits what anyone thinks.

Fortunately, l live in an area where there are no social justice warriors. They wouldn't fit in here, they would be laughed at, and ridiculed, and quite rightly too. And no, it's not a 'racist' area, we voted LibDems in here, and there are a number of POC here, but there is zero tolerance for people who berate the English flag. (And people who fly it!)

It's very odd that these whingers who are soooooo offended by their OWN COUNTRY'S FLAG, and seem to despise England so much, never do anything to leave the country. No, they won't - because they know where they're bloody well off.

I think I will go and stick an England flag in my window now. I usually only put it up when there is a football tournament, but I will stick it in the window now, because why the hell shouldn't I?!

Oddly, I never come across people in real life who are 'offended' by the English flag, it seems to be largely people online only. Keyboard warriors I think they're called.

Hear hear! 👏

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