To ask those who are not white brittish how they feel about the flags?

[PicaK]

Birmingham and Tower Hamlets are having St George England flags put up by privately funded groups.
I'm horrified by the implicit racism. I've seen a lot of white people applauding this and "time we took back the country" comments.
I haven't seen many non white people commenting. My feel is that they are too intimidated to do so. Am I right? Or is it indifference or is it that you're dealing with racism on a daily level and this is just one more thing.
Please don't post if you're white.whatever you feel about the flags. I want to hear on white viewd

That's quite the take on the Holocaust. Nothing to do with Germans? Wow

Are you serious?

@lakielady - if you don't know which major hard left group, who terrorises women is, that's up to you. I guess burying your head in the sand is easy when you can just blame the soft target. Do you think Palestine Action Group are far right? This should be fun.

Shaming kids, for actions carried out before they were even born - that's a new low and folk are applauding it. Then again, white working class kids are more than used to it, by now.

But how is it anything to do with 99% of German people in the 1940s?

You complied with the Nazi's or you died.

We rightly don't blame German people for the holocaust. We blame the Nazis.

"Self deprecate"- what because if you don't have a a flag permanently displayed in your window you are the hard left?

So you believe German civilians were at fault ? Wow!

I don’t agree with “take back our country” comments as I’m pro immigration/ migration.

But I have no problem with a country flying its own flag proudly - and have never felt intimidated in the various overseas countries I’ve lived and worked in when they’ve done the same.

The flag isn’t the issue - attitudes - however - are.

And why not? I don't fly the flag, but I defend anyone else's right to fly it if they wish. Why would it matter to you if people like to be patriotic? You do you....

Who were the Nazi party comprised of, if not German people? I don’t believe the “We were just following orders” defence counted for anything at the Nuremberg trials.

My mate's DF used to fly both the Union flag and the St George's cross from a flagpole at the bottom of his garden. The garden backs on to a busy main road, so loads of people drive past it.

He sold the house a couple of years ago, and it's been weird not seeing the flags, but I had occasion to go that way earlier today and was amused to see that the new people are flying the county flag and a rainbow flag.

He'd have 50 fits if he saw it, but he's so patriotic he's fucked off to live in his villa in Spain.

Employment, infrastructure and safety!? Seriously? Apparently there are no jobs out there currently, which is only going to get worse with AI's emergence. Our infrastructure is on its knees - too many people using already overloaded systems - look at NHS and housing. And safety - according to posters on here, apparently we're a country of racists where none white inhabitants feel in danger every day. So I'm not sure your thinking is accurate....

Yes of course. It is foolish to imagine that there were not a lot of ordinary Germans who approved of what the Nazis did. They were voted in. They sent their disabled and children to be rationalized into hospitals. Some of them despised Jews and regarded them as sub normal, some enjoyed the power they had over their fellow citizens and got to be sadists with state backing.

There are always people with these instincts. It’s just that unusually in Germany they were voted in.

Anyway, the generations after are not guilty of their crimes.

Easy to say when you are part of the colonising populace and not the group that was colonised.

You list the successful countries but what of the unsuccessful ones / the ones where the indigenous populations (such as much of the Caribbean) were completely wiped out?

I am also not sure you can claim the USA.
The English / British colonisation was a tiny fraction of the country as a whole.

I wonder whether the latter posters on this thread vote Reform (seems obvious) and leave it at that, or go further and support EDL. If the latter, Nigel's got a problem on his hands if he doesn't want sectarianism spoiling things for him. This thread is a real eye opener in terms of how these people think, their willingness to move on from other people's histories and instead focus on their own perceived victimhood, their definitions of "weak" and "strong", their tortuous illogical non-sequiturs, the standard unconnected tropes wheeled out again and again when an argument doesn't suit their rhetoric - it's all about emotions, blame and defensiveness, aggression and anger simmering under the surface. Oddly, very similar MO to some posters on the Harry and Meghan threads in some respects! A couple of posters I recognise from the Israel/Gaza threads and the Royal Family board, to the point I wonder whether they're recruiters. I'm happy to see their true colours, such as they're willing to reveal them on MN. It's good to be educated.

German civilians were involved in the Holocaust, both directly and indirectly

Ordinary police units were involved in the rounding up of Jews
Those working on the trains helped transport them to concentration camps
Civilians informed on Jews in hiding and on German's who helped them
German companies like Krupp used forced labour.

Try reading one of these:

Christopher R. Browning - Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland (1992)
Christopher R. Browning - Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland (1992)
Peter Fritzsche - Life and Death in the Third Reich (2008)

Oops, meant to paste this in

Eric A. Johnson - What We Knew: Terror, Mass Murder, and Everyday Life in Nazi Germany (2005)

Instead of the Browning book twice. Although that is so good it's worth mentioning twice.

There's a big difference between a country flying its flag proudly, and a group of unknown individuals putting them up on every lamppost in several areas of a city, which was the original subject of the thread

I’ve read everything now.

So what if posters vote Reform - ask yourselves why they do. Once again, the ones talking about intolerance are always the most intolerant. That certainly includes HARD LEFT Antifa thugs, who beat up women and pensioners. How bloody heroic. Of course though, they don't exist.

Have you really just mentioned the use of non sequitur- the left shoehorn the usual far right clichés into all of these threads no matter what direction the thread has taken.

Well, the latest sneery post hasn't surprised me. I couldn't imagine much worse than hating your own heritage and constantly apologising for it. How sad.

Please see the little reading list I put together for @SquishedMallow

German civilians were involved in the Holocaust, both directly and indirectly.

Saying that 99% were uninvolved is incorrect. Please read up on the reality

Rings a bell with Palestinian civilians.

Are you always like this? Or just on mumsnet?

I've just seen this! A poster tells an account of being verbally aggressed, being groped under their skirt, spat at, in a racially aggravated way - and your response is "You are being judgmental and putting yourself on a pedestal", and "it happened to you once, 20 odd years ago", slipping in a token "it's not acceptable" immediately undone by "but it's also not common place".

Who ARE you?! How do people think this way? It's not fair to judge everyone in the same way, you say? Why don't you go find my aggressors and tell them that - those male aggressors who could have knocked me out with one blow if I'd dare try to do anything than run away. How PRECIOUS has your life been that you can think this way? Would you say the same to a woman at the receiving end of domestic abuse? That if she goes on to be wary of men who look and act and wear the same football strip as her husband, she's no right to be wary and that in fact she's being judgemental and putting herself on a pedestal?

There sure are some crazy people in the world. I hope, really really hope, you're not a woman.