To ask those who are not white brittish how they feel about the flags?

[PicaK]

Birmingham and Tower Hamlets are having St George England flags put up by privately funded groups.
I'm horrified by the implicit racism. I've seen a lot of white people applauding this and "time we took back the country" comments.
I haven't seen many non white people commenting. My feel is that they are too intimidated to do so. Am I right? Or is it indifference or is it that you're dealing with racism on a daily level and this is just one more thing.
Please don't post if you're white.whatever you feel about the flags. I want to hear on white viewd

Best way to "reclaim" it is for more people to fly it, more buildings, etc.

So I asked my beloved DIL who is non white British and she doesn’t see anything wrong in it-in fact, she said it’s provocative to take them down when the flags of foreign countries are allowed. She doesn’t understand it. She’s British by naturalisation but grew up in Asia.

My husband is almost 80, he remembers being spat at on the street as a child, he remembers how he was treated as the first black officer in his police force. His immediate thoughts is that it might be racist, self preservation so maybe that is a problem with him but who created the problem.

He was Cappadocian Greek and he never came to England. I only know this because of a school project that I did a billion years ago (because I am ancient) on patron saints. Also St. Patrick was born in Banwen, 40ish miles from where I am typing this now in Swansea - so arguably Welsh (from memory I think we exiled him...)

So I asked my beloved DIL who is non white British and she doesn’t see anything wrong in it-in fact, she said it’s provocative to take them down when the flags of foreign countries are allowed. She doesn’t understand it. She’s British by naturalisation but grew up in Asia.

"Please don't post of you're white" - ffs racist

Interesting but she doesn't speak for every non white person.

?? Would love to hear how you know what colour people are? I thought we were all colour blind now anyway?

I'm Irish, long resident in England, & am just sick of flags generally at this stage - Union Jack, George's Cross, EU, Pride, Progress Pride, all the endless sexual orientation flags, Palestine - they can get in the bin. When I was growing up in the Republic we used to eye roll at the Northern Irish obsession with 'flegs' strung up everywhere to mark tribal territory. It's sad to see it happening here thirty years later. And all flags are about territorial marking - Pride's just as much about claiming territory for Progressives, Palestine flags can mark an area as Muslim etc etc. So I guess the English/ British right might as well have their 'flegs' out too.

British born and bred, but obviously visually ‘foreign’-looking, and thus have had racist (ranging from uncomfortable to downright dangerous) encounters with a very small minority of people both in my personal and professional life. To those for whom the colour of my skin is a problem, I am viewed as non-British.

I don’t believe the union flag is considered to be racist. Same for the saltire and the Welsh dragon.

However, it depends on the context for the St George flag. Around the time of sporting events where England, rather than GB are competing, then no, not racist. A whole town festooned with the flag, no, I would not consider it to be racist. In these situations, I think it’s patriotic, brings the community together, and actually is rather lovely thing to see.

Unfortunately, whether we like to admit it or not, the St George flag has been co-opted by certain racist far-right groups. In combination with a constellation of other factors, I would find the display of the flag to be a marker that I might be under threat from an individual just from the colour of my skin.

I think there are usually enough other signifiers to show whether the intent of flying the flag is benign or potentially more dangerous.

(Just like for example itching is very common, and in the vast majority of cases is of no concern at all, but in combination with other features may be a sign of very serious pathology).

I think those commenting above are probably correct -maybe we should fly the flag more to reclaim it.

Which people?

The ones putting them up or the ones referred to in the quote "everybody's buzzing, everybody's really happy seeing the flags, everybody's talking about it"?

Darker than a good cup of tea over here.

I don't think the flags are racist. I'm proud to be British. But the people most vocal and most visible with the flags do tend to be racist. They confuse patriotism with just not liking black and brown people. If a sea of St George's flags went up on my street overnight, it would concern me.

The St George flag ‘implicit racism’.

What a time to be alive.

Well of course not, but then why bother with the thread? Nobody can speak for a particular group-it’s all personal opinions.

I agree. @PicaK I think it’s totally inaccurate and very exaggerated to compare the England flag to the flag of the Third Reich.

Why? Partly because the England flag is - obviously - the national flag of England, whereas the Third Reich flag is just the flag of a regime - not of a country - and it was obviously used by the Nazis to claim territory in countries outside of Germany that they invaded and occupied. It’s just such a ridiculous comparison that it’s making me angry!

People bring the St George's flag to Wales when they play us at the rugby. it's flown all around the Principality Stadiwm - doesn't bother me in the slightest and I even manage not to bring up Edward I and 1277! (Last bit was tongue-in-cheek for the avoidance of doubt!)

Our Welsh Dragon flag is flown with pride. I think it's quite sad and wrong that the home nations don't have the same thought process for their flags.

No, it ‘ain’t’ the truth.
He was Cappadocian Greek not Turkish.
Which makes the original post, and further endorsement of it, somewhat ironic.

Yes but maybe with other flags, maybe public buildings flying them with their county flag, local sports teams flags etc.

Why would non-white English/British citizens be intimated by seeing the flag of their nation?

Surely as English/British, they feel as deeply proud & patriotic in seeing it, as any white person in the country?

Birmingham council are taking down the flags not putting them up.

I'm Irish- so not an instinctive fan of either of those flags - and even I don't look at them and see Far Right. The England flag I just associate with football, the Union Jack's just the national flag or the Olympics or part of a particular 90s Brit Pop aesthetic (was a teen in the 90s).

It is in no way reminiscent of Nazi flags. Get a grip.

I agree. I think that would be a positive opportunity for people to discuss its importance and to talk about what it means to them. As an example, I think the England football teams have done a brilliant job of sparking conversations around the history and meaning of the flag and about changing the way we view it.

Cappadocia is in Turkey, national boundaries change.