To ask those who are not white brittish how they feel about the flags?

[PicaK]

Birmingham and Tower Hamlets are having St George England flags put up by privately funded groups.
I'm horrified by the implicit racism. I've seen a lot of white people applauding this and "time we took back the country" comments.
I haven't seen many non white people commenting. My feel is that they are too intimidated to do so. Am I right? Or is it indifference or is it that you're dealing with racism on a daily level and this is just one more thing.
Please don't post if you're white.whatever you feel about the flags. I want to hear on white viewd

No, read my comments. I said it needs to be reclaimed so it isn't seen as a far right symbol.

Non-white British. I have experienced racist abuse in my life. If I see a St George's Cross hanging outside a pub or painted on someone's face I will assume they are racist and for my own safety I will give them a wide berth. I do not need to justify this (and have no interest in doing so).

Obviously the flag "itself" is not racist - it is just a basic red and white pattern on material - but flags have no actual meaning beyond what people use them to signify. And for several decades the English flag has been used to signify racism. If I see it, I know I'm not welcome there.

And no one is trying to ban it or silence you lot. I don't give a shit if you fly it. I'm happy for you to - the more visible warning signs the better. I prefer my racism visible to me ahead of time rather than to be ambushed by it.

I am not sure why those who apparently feel sad about this state of affairs haven't been bringing it up with the racists for the last few decades? Go talk to them and leave us POC out of it please.

That's a bit mad and rather intolerant

I guess you're joking! But in case anyone thinks you are not... no it doesn't! To represent Wales it would need a yellow/gold cross or black somewhere in the background.

Instinct.

My mum is white English but my father is black, so I guess I’m ok to comment? The England flag doesn’t bother me and I’d honestly rather see it than Palestine flags or Ukraine flags personally (that people still have in windows near me 😒)

If you think that the sight of an England flag is going to change someone’s opinions on race or nationality, and suddenly make them support people like Tommy Robinson then you’ve got a very poor opinion of most people.

I didn't think the police bit was in a statement from the council, rather in an email that has apparently been leaked:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15003113/Fury-Labour-run-council-tears-dangerous-St-Georges-Union-Jack-flags.html

Two-tier policing / enforcement of rules is nothing new in Birmingham though and has arguably contributed to why there are areas where a group of people are now hanging these flags.

The ship has sailed. It IS seen as a far right symbol. If you don't want the far right to turn flags into symbols of racism then the best and most useful thing to do is to fight against the far right, not moan about how unfair it is that the flag they use all the time is associated with them.

Funny how nobody ever says it’s jingoistic for French people, Spaniards,Italians, Germans, or any other nationality, to fly their own flag.

Nor are the Scots or Welsh ashamed of theirs.

It’s only the English, or a certain section of us, who are apparently ashamed of their own country.
And please don’t anyone put it down to colonialism - other European countries had their colonies, and don’t seem to beat themselves up about it. As for Germany, well, Hitler did his best to acquire a lot more ‘colonies’ than they’d managed before the late 1930s.

Tower Hamlets has had the Palestinian flag up which is arguably disgraceful considering the actions of Hamas. This is all down to the corrupt mayor of Tower Hamlets. The St George’s flag is a welcome addition but it isn’t being put up by the council, rather private groups and they want to take it down.

Yes agree it’s not too difficult to spot judgemental attitudes, like you’re demonstrating.

As a non British person in my 40s I only ever saw the St George flag associated with football hooligans and the National Front. It not a racist flag. But id associate it with racism. I found English people mainly used the Union Jack instead which implied to be they also thought there was something wrong with the St George flag.

I'm white but not British - and it's clear from my accent. I wouldn't go into a pub which was flying the English flag, unless during a major international sporting competition.

I might be being prejudiced, but I would be concerned that it would be hostile - there was so much anti-European feeling during Brexit, and I just don't want to be in a place where I'd worry that there were people who felt I should 'go home', and might want to tell me why.

It is really sad that the St George's Cross has these connotations for many people. It's a bit like the Union Jack and Irish flags being flown in different areas in Northern Ireland, it's a symbol of an identity which isn't necessarily welcoming to people not from the same community.

The Union Jack flying anywhere else in the UK wouldn't make me nervous, or the Welsh or Scottish flags.

Non-white Brit here, if I’m allowed to have a voice, my thoughts are... Unless it gets reclaimed, it immediately makes me think of angry skin-heads. It gives me slight chills, in the same way looking at a US confederate flag makes me think of white supremacists.

I think English people have a very weak understanding of their history and their ancestors antics globally, so am weary of what they want to take pride in…

‘Please don’t post if you’re white’ ? Really ?

That's not what I'm saying at all.

So show us a Greek map showing Cappadocia on it. If you point to where he was born on a map it is in Turkey.

My father was born in the UK but after partition, I don't think anyone would deny he was born in Ireland.

So because Cappadocia is in modern day Turkey, you think that makes someone who was born in the third century ‘Turkish’.
🤣🤣
As I said, ironic.

Agreed. Racism right there.

😊

I'm black and it really pissed me off when I heard it on the radio and hour ago. There is enough racial tension at the moment, and shit like this just adds fuel to the fire.

Yes, there are racists who have commandeered the flag, but if idiotic officials purge cities of the flag, then it actually becomes theirs.

There are so many far more useful things we could be doing to improve race relations, instead of removing flags few people actually care about.

So you think only English people should be ashamed of their ‘ancestors’ antics’ ? If that were the criteria for every country in the world flying their national flag, there wouldn’t be many left to fly.

Would a similar situation be where the word “queer” was once a homophobic insult whereas now it’s seen as a positive descriptor used with pride by those who identify as “queer”?

I am Black and I don’t care. Complete indifference.

You could try posting on Black or South Asian MN if you want non-white opinions.