My 8 year old is out of control

[holidaymakers]

I am really struggling to get through the summer holidays, my daughter 8 is hateful and gets such a kick out of annoying her older sister, she hits her for no reason but to make her cry several times a day.

She is so rude to me and her dad and whenever we speak to her she shouts shut up.
If she’s asked to do anything we get a flat no screamed in our face.
I have confiscated things, removed privileges and she’s missed out on things but it doesn’t change the behaviour she just reminds us how much she hates us.

I feel sorry for her sister for what she puts her through, she is so kind and well behaved in contrast.

We have suspected ODD and ADHD for a while the doctor wants evidence from the school and we’re a long way off any diagnosis.

She constantly reminds me I can’t tell her what to do and I can’t make her, she hits me whenever I ask anything of her and she makes a high pitched squeal all day every day which is ear piercing and unbearable to hear.
She demands things instantly for example if she’s suddenly hungry she’ll repeat it while hitting me until she gets something or she’ll constantly kick her sister saying I won’t stop until I get food.
She is so angry, constantly talks through gritted teeth with fists clenched and I’m so jumpy around her because I’m constantly flinching I never know when she will hit.
I know I have to find a way to cope for my other daughter but I don’t know how.
I can’t think straight through the high pitched squeal, it’s driving me insane.
Her dad is at work all day but even he is drained within minutes of being home and is at his wits end too.
Shes ruined our life, our family, my daughters home life and if it wasn’t for my older daughter I’d walk away tomorrow and happily never see her again but I couldn’t leave my eldest. I feel so done, yet I’m also worried that if she continues to hurt her sister I could lose her if I can’t prevent it and I know I would never be able to look at her again if she caused that.

So GP does not care about how she is behaving at home and will only take things further if school is facing same issues?

So according to GP for ADHD diagnosis the child needs to be consistently badly behaved everywhere? So if strike AdHD off, what other issues Gp thinks are causing such behaviour and how you can resolve them? There has to be some help.
or if you can afford, I highly recommend going to a private clinic.

My sister used to do the same. Not as bad as this child but she’d ruin the atmosphere for everyone a few seconds after she entered a room. She wasn’t ND she was just a very difficult child to manage. She’s calmed down a lot over the years but it wasn’t anything her family did or didn’t do to cause her behaviour.

I haven’t been through this but I know those who have and it’s hard for everyone in the family. This link may help with practical info. Best wishes

Show her that hitting at home is a No abd that is NO NEGOTIABLE. I'm leaving it to you to chose the way you do this. Thank me later

Sounds like pda profile.

Not possible if she has an undiagnosed sen.
She would need expert professional advice and strategies.

She's nd and pda profile. They're never happy with anything. But you have to take control back, lower demand, observe what works with them. I wouldn't be accepting anyone hitting at home without them feeling the full repercussions;

I agree with putting emphasis on positive social experiences to develop social skills. This is best done in a low-stress environment where you can 'scaffold' your DD and support her interactions with other children. If you can spend some unstructured time each week in playparks or similar places with other children around to interact with, this could help. Bring 'communal' toys like chalks to encourage interaction.

It does upset her that she has no friends but if we do ever meet other families at the park she will often choose to play on her own anyway.
She will say it’s because she doesn’t want to play what they’re playing so she just pleases herself.

Additional needs doesn't justify her behaviour.
I'd punish her big time until she learned how to have respect.
Sometimes bad behaviour is just bad behaviour.

@Laxoverhols why are you being so attacking of the OP?

Have you met the child? Are you a psychologist or psychiatrist?

It is clear the situation is now at crisis point and having a massive impact on the family, but particularly on you because at the moment you are bearing the burden for the family's wellbeing. At the heart of the situation is a child who is literally screaming for help, but your patience is drained to the point where you are finding it impossible to empathise. This is a natural defence mechanism and shows how much you as a mother are giving.

I recommend you talk to an impartial organisation such as the youngminds parents helpline - just to offload some of your feelings if nothing else . Also make an appointment for yourself to speak with the GP about the impact this is having on your own mental health and to explain the physical aspect of your daughter's behaviour. The GP can and should make the referral for your daughter's ADHD assessment - the school does not need to agree or have an input in the referral decision. You can then go ahead and speak to the SENCO and your daughter's new class teacher so that they know the full picture when they are asked to contribute to the assessment.

Please try not to worry too much about your older daughter. Remember that she is in a loving family and she will be well aware of how much you are doing to keep her safe and how much you all love her. Through this all, she is already displaying resilience that will help her develop into a strong person ready to take on life's challenges.

Yes, ridiculous nasty comment. Adhd with odd or pda do need tons of outside time, entertainment and even screen time to get their focus rebalanced

Also wanted to add that "other children" is obviously not a one size fits all. Lots of ND kids have problems getting along with NT children, but they might click fantastically with another ND child. It's also often a trial and error process to find playmates who make ideal friends in a low-pressure, low stress environment. One of DD's best friends doesn't go to her school at all but was the result of a random playdate with an acquaintance. They got along so well that we ended becoming friends as a result. Even just having one or two friends makes a huge difference.

With respect, GPs are not experts*. That's why referrals are made to people who are, to make a diagnosis. I don't think ADHD can be ruled out at all. I'd go so far as to say it is highly likely (based on years of experience bith with my own children and those I have worked with) although obviously we can't diagnose via a MN post.

• as a parent of a Type 1 diabetic child I have been agahst at just how poor their knowledge can be.

@holidaymakersthe GP really shouldn't need anything from school, as they will not be carrying out the assessment. Please go back and push for a referral.

I have a child with ASD and have lots of friends with ND children. For all of us, the GP was merely a first point of contact who referred us on to CAMHS. School were involved later on in the diagnostic pathway, but never provided information to the GP.

Lowering the demand is the new nest approach coming. English schools are too punitive

I would be punitive only against the physical violence but take off all demands otherwise

I won't be surprised if your child goes on the burn out because she sounds like she's in one.

Sounds exhausting for her.

My daughter (age 9) is similar. No punishment seems to bother her, but if she is unkind or naughty then she has to go to her room to calm down then apologise.

I do supernanny style carrying her back to her room in silence until she backs down which can take ages. Exhausting.

I get an apology eventually.

Rather than wait for a diagnosis, it might be helpful booking a private appointment with a child psychologist.

It looks like it’s going to be very expensive to go private but I will look into it and see if it’s possible. Is a private diagnosis recognised the same as an NHS diagnosis does anybody know?

I’ve really struggled with my youngest child’s behaviour. Very similar but not as bad as your situation. I think we are slowly coming out the other end at nearly ten years of age but we still have explosions and the word no is used far too much. What has helped us is consistency of boundaries, keeping calm and my child understanding they are loved regardless (even when I don’t like the behaviour I always make my child know they are loved). It worries me that you are talking in a way that you have had enough and could leave - that shows me you have shut down and are in desperate need of help.

Have you the money to go for a private diagnosis? Honestly I would do everything I could to get your daughter infront of a professional and find out what’s going on. None of it sounds normal or average or something that would just sort itself out in time.

Not helpful at all. I have a son who is very similar and he is treated very well and exactly the same as my daughter who is very well behaved and doesn’t have any issues. I avoid posting about it on here because of judgy people like you.

My health visitor just told me this morning a private diagnosis has to be approved by NHS.
I assume this would still be quicker than the current NHS wait time x

You sound like you're at a breaking point tbh, and possibly the main advice we can give here is at this point to prioritize yourself, not any resources or strategies. It's hard to think clearly when you're that stretched. Is there any family that can step in, or perhaps your husband needs to take time off work to look after your younger child while you spend some time with your older daughter, or on your own? What happens if you're unwell? Do you have any supports for yourself? Take care

It’s the school holidays, so maybe they’re bored and have nothing better to do.