AIBU- second child when first is autistic.

[JeffRedd]

First is severely autistic. 24/7 needs and very physically aggressive. I think it would be manageable, but am I being unreasonable to take away time/attention/finances from first child by having two. And would it be unfair on second child to be limited by first child’s needs?

My post was deleted but it wasn’t the one that contained hate speech, saying you hate your child’s autism and are teaching them to mask is verging on hate speech. I’m disturbed that Mumsnet HQ deleted my post and not that of the mother who “hates” her child’s autism (which is not something separate to him by the way.)

Judging by some of the ableist comments on this thread that have been allowed to stand, I’m wondering if Mumsnet takes disability hate speech seriously at all.

I have to add that the high/low functioning labels are outdated and incorrect.

High functioning or Aspergers type profiles are often linked with self harm, suicide and all manner of poor long term outcomes. Being intelligent can be a curse. Burnout is a huge risk factor for people who are initially seeming to be coping fine.

Why is that hate speech?

I am fully aware of that, I have a severely autistic sibling.

What people still don’t seem to get is that to wish away a child’s autism is to wish them away - autism isn’t separate to the child, it’s encoded in their genetic material, it’s who they are. That’s why it’s such a disturbing thing to me to hear a mother say she hates her child’s autism.

You can say you hate to see your child suffer, that you wish your and their lives were easier, but to say you hate their autism is horrible. As I said in my other comment, in disturbed that Mumsnet lets the ableist comments stand but deletes mine calling it out.

I’m sorry but despite being a paediatric nurse you don’t sound like you really understand autism, and the fact that you seem to think it’s OK for a mother to say they hate their child’s autism and are actively making them to mask really disturbs me. That’s not the same thing as saying you wish your child wasn’t suffering. Autism is not a disease. Yes it’s a disorder but also it’s a fundamental part of who a child is and I do think this mother could do with some help processing that in a healthy way.

I wouldn't change who they are for the world.
Obviously I'd like their life to be easier for them.
OP, how old is your DS? He may be less aggressive as he gets older. My nephew has come on leaps since he was a younger DC.

I don't know. Two children for me is hard work, I wouldnt cope with more than 1 if they had high needs.
But, other people have 5 kids and cope fine, or foster multiple children, or are just great with kids with special needs.
How it will be will be unique to your family and you. If you have space, support, patience and the ability to care for high needs children then I am sure it could be fine.
But If you have any cracks in your life then I imagine they will get bigger.

And the fact that you think a mother should not want more for her child’s life than one that is hugely affected by a disability/disorder, disturbs me. So we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Think about worse case scenario @JeffRedd say DS1 doesn’t accept new baby, baby has equal or greater but different severe autism, you fail to put the same support into place if Dc2 has needs and your relationship breaks down, and anything else you can think of worse case. DS1 gets bigger, stronger and so does the other.

If you are ok with that then have another child.

Personally I wouldn’t, because the odds are higher that any child you have might always need 24/7 care and whilst having a child and no knowing that, or being prepared it could happen to anyone in a blink of an eye, knowing the odds are more possible would make me hesitate and think again.

Sorry but it would be extremely selfish both for your existing child and the potential child if you were to go on to have another.

It would reduce the amount of time and energy you're able to dedicate to your first, and growing up in a home with an older sibling that is very physically aggressive would be awful for a younger child. Try really imagine what your day to day would look like, and the things you'd want to be able to give to your second, and how that would work. It's sadly likely that their life would be overshadowed and hampered.

There's a term for neurotypical/health children in a home with a severely disabled or high needs neurodivergent sibling: the glass child.

The glass child is called this, because while all of the adults are busy staring at the child who has higher needs and trying to anticipate and meet their needs, they stare right through the 'easy' child and fail to recognise their needs. Which appear to pale in comparison.

If you have another and they're healthy then you could well end up with a glass child whose needs you simply can't meet. And if they have the same level of issues as your existing child, both would suffer from you and your partner being at the end of your tether doing it twice over.

Time to put your thinking cap on and do what's right for your existing and potential future child.

Is there another way that is better to explain this? My daughter is autistic, but as per many girls can mask like crazy and lives a (relatively) typical life - has some social difficulties, has a lot of anxiety and the typically teenage girl presentation of autistic with sensory challenges but she isn't violent, she does well at school and probably 99% of the people she sees would have no idea. So when I say she's 'autistic' without another word it doesn't feel quite right as the challenges are really different to people living with violence, pre-speaking, etc. My brother was diagnosed as 'Asperger's' and then 'high functioning autism' in different decades but neither are appropriate to say now. So just wondering if there's a better phrase you're aware of that I can try out with her...

Anyway... back to the point.

My daughter is autistic, as is my younger brother. So speaking as the sibling as someone with extra needs it was difficult, and it was nowhere as difficult as the situation you'd have for a theoretical new baby in this situation. My mother was wrapped up in my brother's care. I couldn't do brownies because he had therapy. and I still remember that. Am aware there's a balancing act for everything with two children (I have two myself), but there were many situations where my parents just weren't around because of some last minute emergency or similar.

I now have an autistic daughter and a younger NT son so am seeing some of this play out again in the opposite way. We didn't know before having our son, but with the sort of needs my daughter has it isn't a dangerous situation, just a slightly complicated one. I regularly think about how restricted my son's life can be at times - my daughter doesn't like noise and crowds so we naturally do quieter activities. I actually have no idea if my son would like a water park or a roller coaster or a massive concert as these things just aren't options as a family. Now that he's older we can and do split them up, but my daughter needs a 'lot' from me and I'm very aware that my son gets what's left. It's made him incredibly self sufficient and self possessed, and he seems happy, but I am sad that I'm not as close to him as I am to my daughter because I'm just really tired and don't have much left at the end of the day. And our situation is the best possible scenario - my daughter is mostly similar to NT children, just with lots of extra support at home, we have two parents and incomes, a decent sized home, lots of time and attention to share between them... and it's still hard.

So unless there's a longer term plan for residential care or similar for your older child, I'd be really hesitant to add a newborn to this mix. There are so many stories of autistic children who just can't cope with a new child and families having to split into different living arrangements, living with violence, etc. It's obvious that you love your child and want the best for them, but it's really difficult to see how this could work with all the extra surprises that come with a new child. Even the best case scenario is challenging sadly.

My second also has autism and has enriched everyone’s lives. Second child is punchy, able to deal well at school and encouraged or even demanded interaction with No 1 child from the get-go. My experience is nowhere near as bleak as the potential scenarios outlined here. It might work out perfectly well, OP.

I wouldn’t because it wouldn’t be fair on either child.

You already have one child with huge needs. If the second child has needs these might not be the same and could be conflicting as well.

If the new baby is NT then they spend their lives in the shadow of doing everything based on their siblings needs. Glass children.

It's a disability I think it is you who doesn't understand autism and how disabling it can be for some people, it's a huge spectrum i
Why do you think people should love their child's disability ,when they know how much harder life is for everyone.

I have 2 daughters and my first (21 this year) is severely autistic. I had my second when my older one was 9, nearly 10 - I knew there were always going to be challenges such as not leaving them unsupervised and the fact that I had them both dependent on me, a few years of them both being in nappies and as the older one was still using a major buggy when the younger one was born I couldn't take them both out on my own until at least one of them was walking outdoors - I soon encouraged the older one to walk by the time the younger one was mobile.

The younger one is now 11 and has grown up knowing her sister is different and will never be able to interact with her in a meaningful way. She has had to compromise a lot around her sister and has always understood that we cannot do things she wants to do because her sister might find it too much. My Mum and Dad have always been actively involved and help look after them both as well as ensure the younger child doesn't miss out on things.

I am sorry, but in your circumstances, no way would I have a 2nd child.

Don’t do it. Cruel on a second child to subject them to that physically and emotionally.

I very much understand it. I have several autistic people in my family, some severe.
I’m genuinely very worried about some of these comments.
You love the child you have. You can hate that they find things difficult, that life is a struggle for you and them. But can’t you see that hating a disability that is an intrinsic part of that child is something very different? The disability isn’t separate, the child wouldn’t be some perfect neurotypical child without it, they wouldn’t exist, because their disability is them. It’s who they are.

Maybe I’m expecting too much nuance from people on this thread, but there must be someone out there who understands what I’m saying. Trying to force your kid to behave neurotypically isn’t going to change who they are fundamentally, and may well harm their mental health.

I would urge you to think also OP about why you'd be wanting to bring a newborn, baby, toddler, small child, into a home where there is an older, stronger child that is physically aggressive and dangerous. You wouldn't do that to a rabbit or a cat.

Do you have any severely autistic children of your own?
I adore my son but this morning he's scratched and bitten me and pulled my hair, he's non verbal and severely autistic it's not his fault he gets frustrated, but yes I hate the way it's impacted him ten minutes later he's sat on my knee giving me cuddles
I also hate my older sons Diabetes .

Your first was quite rightly deleted. You were horrible to that poster suggesting they didn’t love their child fgs.

I stand by it. It was an ableist post and the way she talked about hate and making her child mask made me worried for the child’s mental health and wellbeing.

Your the one making hate speech.

Wishing away your child’s disability is not the same as wishing they didn’t exist.

My friend has a son who is autistic and life is hard for both of them. He’s ostracised at school, no other children want to be his friend, he struggles socially, he doesn’t get invited to parties, he struggles with his emotions so much and he hates it. He has outburst of anger, he screams and shouts and hits out and then he’s crying because he doesn’t want to do it but he has no control over it. He also doesn’t sleep because he can’t switch off and he tells my friend that he feels like there’s a rave happening in his brain every hour of the day, he said it’s like explosions are going off in his head all day and all night and he doesn’t know how to stop it. He cries all the time because of how hard he finds life. He is not a happy child and she knows his life will just get harder and harder and it absolutely breaks my friend’s heart to see her son hurting so much and not to be able to do anything about it.

She hates to see him suffering but it doesn’t make her a bad mother just because she wishes she could take his autism away from him.

Yes his diagnosis is part of him, but any parent who says they wouldn’t magic their child’s autism away if they could, is a mystery to me.

A parent’s natural urge when they are seeing their child’s suffering should be to rid them of what is making them suffer.

Don’t you see what I’m saying though: if you magic away a child’s autism, then you magic them away, too. They wouldn’t be that child anymore. There isn’t some alternative perfect neurotypical child that would exist if you took the autism away, it’s not extrinsic.

I feel like the distinction I’m asking people to see is just beyond them at this point. But I know there are mums out there who get this.

The narrative of this thread is autism is bad, it is something to hate, don’t inflict it on another child. I don’t think the OP is ever going to find advice on here that isn’t ableist sadly.