When someone dies.....

[Wiltshiregirl06]

Posting for traffic here, all suggestions welcome.

A relative lives a very reclusive life, think a farm house in the middle of nowhere, not much contact with others, apart from occasionally getting shopping delivered from another distant relative.
If he dies, how would we find out or be notified? The distant relative doesn't have my contact details, I don't have theirs. The relative in question is elderly, doesn't see or hear well, can't read be or write very well and isn't likely to have our details to hand, or be able to read it if they did.
Is there anywhere we can register that we (my family and my father) are next of kin? Just to complicate matters, my father and them fell out some years ago and don't speak.
Thank you.

Once again, if a third party does it then SS will ask if they have permission and will shut them down if they haven't. Provided they still have capacity, and nothing I have read here indicates they haven't, then they can tell social services to bog off and no one can do a thing ubless the present a health or safety risk to others, eg rats, fire risk to neighbours. If someone is doing their shopping then my best suggestion is for the "friend" to contact them and ask to be kept informed but again properly they should ask the person concerned for permission to do this. Better still why does the "friend" not try to make contact with their older relative themselves? Got to say as a retired Occupational Therapist and now an old person myself it gets right up my nose when people think that old or disbled people shouldn't be able to make their own choices and decisions. I do wonder how this "friend" knows so much about the person's circumstances if they never visit and the person won't communicate with them?

Rather than worrying about him dying and not being found for ages, which realistically won’t actually do him any harm if he’s dead, the bigger concern would be that he fell and couldn’t call for help. I think it would be worth your friend trying to open the discussion with him about how she could help if he were in need. I recently convinced my uncle (who is not remotely reclusive but is elderly) to sort a few things out so that we could actually help. Things like making sure we had a key so that we could go and get clothes and take them to him in hospital if needed, stuff like that.

It's not necessarily regularly, that's the trouble. The relative is unlikely to want any "interference" in their life, such as a life line alarm, carers, social services etc. Comes under the saying "you can't help those that won't help themselves". To be fair, although their life would not be to everyone's choice, they have always lived like this but now they are older they will not accept that things might need to change.

Wrong thread.

so long as they are happy to continue as they are and don't pose a risk to neighbours then nothing "needs to" change.

Another helpful suggestion, thank you. Honestly, you try and find information for stuff you don't know, and everyone piles on! So glad it's not my friend posting here, she's got enough to do with her toxic family and she'd be so upset.

Exactly, and if nothing else the state will want to know details of NoK to give people a chance to arrange a funeral.

I would suggest she writes to him expressing how sad it is for a family to lose touch and ask if he is happy for her to communicate with him. Put returns address and phone number on letter. If he doesn’t send reply saying no, she can continue to send letters regularly every month with just general chat about her family, what’s happening in her life, hoping he is well and asking him to get in touch if he needs any assistance. Again returns address on them. If he doesn’t get out to post office she may not get a reply but at least he has some contact outside his small world. Any letter found in house on death would help to ensure she is notified

People saying if your the person that's dead you won't care if your not found for ages.

Someone finds you. Normally police. I'm not sure everyone of them is unaffected. Kicking in doors. Finding rotting bodies.

Bodies are organic and they break down. They leak.

If the cops arrange to remove the body, you then don't walk into a pristine fresh house. It's not pleasant. Honestly. I know first hand.

More information could have been put in the OP tbf. People will assume, especially on here.

Another good idea, thank you. It's difficult as he doesn't read or write very well, but at least a letter there would be a starting point for any authorities to look at.

I’ve not RTFT, sorry, but I just wanted to say that OP could be genuinely just interested in knowing that their relative has passed with no selfish intent.

i grew up with very Little extended family in this country except two uncles, both of whom had left their partners and family abroad and lived as single men. Both uncles were nice to us as kids and we enjoyed having their company. But we learned later that they had exploited my parents’ kindness many times and after much personal loss my parents cut contact.

Years later we found out that both uncles had died sad and alone, not discovered for weeks, only reported when neighbours smelt something odd. The shock and sadness of learning that’s how my uncles died has left a deep scar within for all of us. I wish someone had let us know and we could have given them a decent burial. We got nothing In inheritance and nor did we ever expect to. But the sadness remains. No one deserves that sort of death.

This has literally just happened to me and my sister in the last few days . Our relative fell out spectacularly with us after our Mother died and we have had NC for approximately 10 years .Am not going into any detail.
Relative was living off grid on another continent where the culture is very different to the UK .
I was informed by the police late at night recently that relative has sadly died.
We have absolutely no idea how we were tracked down,knew nothing about their life ,who their friends were and we still don’t have any details about their death,address etc . Foreign Office have been as helpful as they can but we are up a brick wall trying to ensure ( despite the past) that relative gets a respectful funeral.
So what I am trying to say is that there are many people who just want to do the right thing for a relative regardless of their relationship.Not everyone are money grabbers.
Our relative certainly hasn’t got any money that we are aware of and if they did have any we want that money to benefit the community that relative lived in for over 30 years .

I know a family where the ex husband/abusive father lay dead in the kitchen in a tropical summer for 3 weeks. No family contact. Several acres of land and he was able to get around, drive do his own shopping etc. and was not a recluse.

Finally one day the neighbour wandered over as she'd not seen him in a while. It was awful. Granted the ex wife and 2 adult kids wanted nothing to do with him because of his behaviour but it was still awful news for them. Didn't do much for the neighbour either.

In the end someone bought the place, removed the kitchen wall (as it could not be cleaned or in any way salvaged) and uses it still as a storage barn for livestock feed. Built another house closer to the road. Really the only other alternative was complete demolition.

where there is a will there is always a sobbing relation lol

No one here knows the circumstances of the estrangement so I’m trying not to judge.
My advice is about England - I don’t know about Scotland, Wales or NI.
You can’t register as NOK and “crawl out of the woodwork” when the person dies (I don’t know if this is a universal or just a local term amongst the health/social care/legal professionals who support older people who have no practical, emotional or admin support in life but suddenly seem to have interested relatives when they die). NOK is nominated by a living person.
Your relative may have already considered what they want to do and nominated someone to make arrangements for their funeral and their estate - possibly the distant relative who is in touch, a Solicitor or a neighbour. So it’s by no means a done deal that your father will hear or to be told by anyone or need to be told as this may already be in hand.
If your relative hasn’t left a will, made any arrangements, or nominated a NOK, someone has to arrange the funeral and apply for an order to administer the estate and the decision maker about who this would be would be the local council if your relative dies at home, or hospital authorities if they die in hospital. I think this is a pragmatic decision based on their circumstances when they die - who, if anyone, is in touch with them. Family would be preferred over non family. If there is no will, there are laws about who gets what and a Solicitor would be instructed by the authorities, who would have to evidence they have taken steps to trace beneficiaries and to distribute the estate according to law. Google intestacy laws if you’re interested.
So nothing you can or should do now.
My bigger concern though is that you have described an older person who has significant needs and you believe your father is closest relative. Are you satisfied that that someone is assisting with his well being or is this not under your consideration? If you wanted to be supportive you could write - if no one is assisting your relation with correspondence and they can’t see or hear how are they managing to function safely eg medical appointments, correspondence about bills etc? If someone is assisting they could read your letter to your relative.
Salvation Army could help you to trace the relative who is helping and that may be a way for you to offer help.

Thank you. All relevant points to ask my friend.

Genuinely curious

what made you think

“I know best way to help my friend, join up to mumsnet and start a thread in…. AIBU?!”

I know of someone who died without any obvious relatives.
Presumably had lost touch, as relatives were located..
I am not sure whether it was social services, but they found an address in the apartment and contacted this person, who was able to locate the most direct relatives. (This indicates the partment was searched for relevant papers).
Without a will, any known assets are distributed according to the rules of intestacy, but relatives, usually the next of kin (ie closest relative by birth, but they could nominate someone else), would be resonsible for disposing of any assets (eg; selling a house), and organising a funeral.
If no relatives can be found then the council will organise a basic funeral. If no will can be found and the deceased had assets, the name will go on the bono vacantia list.

Why did you not just say it was a friend in the first place?
You must have known how it would come across the way you worded it. Why not say it was nothing to do with money?

Good point, with hindsight I should have done.

Counting your chickens?

Why not say it was nothing to do with money?

Why assume it was to do with money when the op didn't mention money?

Perhaps op didn't realise there are so many people here whose thoughts leap to 'money and inheritance ' when someone says 'elderly relative'.

I didn't say I did
I'm explaining why I can understand that plenty of people would